NSS-CDS Effectiveness

[tbone1004]

This is a great way to give BACK to the cave diving community.

So what is the CDS actually doing these days? My last chat with the Chairman prior to Renee essentially told me the history of the organization and that's why I should renew. She was unable to give me any reason to renew other than access to Cow. Everything else was "well we did this", no the NFSA did that and you assisted. I'm still waiting to see any relevance before I renew.

Also, someone needs to check their website as Cathy is still listed as property manager for Cow and she's been gone for well over a year

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I cannot give you an all inclusive list but will give you off the top of my head some things.

• Helping keep access to several caves we like to dive in.
• Training Cave divers and setting the bar high in terms of training standards.
• Keeping Public Relations in a positive light.
• Workshops and conferences for public and cave diver education.

There are other things and hopefully other folks will chime in.

Yea I noticed the website needs tweaking...

 

[tbone1004]

I cannot give you an all inclusive list but will give you off the top of my head some things.

• Helping keep access to several caves we like to dive in.
• Training Cave divers and setting the bar high in terms of training standards.
• Keeping Public Relations in a positive light.
• Workshops and conferences for public and cave diver education.

There are other things and hopefully other folks will chime in.

Yea I noticed the website needs tweaking...

1-access, they are part of a larger group that is doing that and there is currently no head of land owner relations so I'm not entirely sure that that would be missed
2- yeah, except that's not actually true and I don't really want to get into that, but they are trying to become relevant again which is nice to see
3-it would be nice if we actually heard from the CDS which we never really do
4-The position of Educational Outreach Committee Coordinator is also vacant, though the conferences are admittedly nice to have.

Either way, we saw the NACD fade away with no negative impact to the community and I am sad to think that if the same happened to the CDS that there would be no change in the community either which means that they have faded into irrelevance.

I wish that wasn't the case, I was a CDS member for years, but I do not have any reason to renew and continue to be a member and donate to NFSA as I feel that they are doing far more. I hope that someone is able to change my opinion, but for the last probably 5 years there has not been a single person on the board of the CDS that has been able to give me one reason that the CDS needs to stay in existence other than historical significance.

 

[tursiops]

If you were not already cave-certified I suspect you would feel differently about the value of the NSS-CDS.

 

[tbone1004]

If you were not already cave-certified I suspect you would feel differently about the value of the NSS-CDS.

why is that? Instruction from a CDS instructor does not guarantee top quality instruction, nor has it in many years and some of the worst instructors in cave country are CDS instructors, in fact I would actively recommend avoiding about 20% of the USA listed instructors on their website and they are essentially irrelevant outside of Florida. They are not doing anything really actively with land owner relations though admittedly had a big presence in keeping Eagles Nest open *which doesn't really matter for non cave divers, and the NFSA is doing far more*. Their conferences are nice, but for a non-cave diver you never would have heard of it. They have attempted to sever ties with the NSS so it's not really a Grotto anymore nor has it been for many many years.

So what value do you see for new cave divers? If they aren't guaranteed quality cave instruction, what are they getting other than access to Cow for part of their training?

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Tom, please tell us how you really feel. Stop holding back!

For me, the fees are minimal and the access to Cow alone is worth them. I spend more on Netflix, and Netflix is actively trying to destroy their value by taking out the shows I paid for, like The Office, Southpark, etc.

I think we need to focus on being constructive, and while your feedback could be very good and useful, I do feel it is every so slightly too harsh.

Of course, I also do my best to stay renewed in both NFSA and NSS CDS, because NFSA is doing amazing stuff too. But I started giving to NFSA because of the cart at Jug, and they have really only blossomed and expanded from there. There are new kids on the block like KUR too, and I always wonder why we keep making new organizations and complaining that the old ones aren't doing enough, instead of working with the old organizations to accomplish stuff. Probably there is a good reason, so this is not a specific complaint, just a poorly researched, wide open musing.

I do sometimes stop being a member for a bit because the auto renew isn't working or set up right, and it's easy to forget stuff, but as long as they hold Cow, and as long as there is a cart at Jug, I will do my best to stay current with both organizations. Can go further if you'd like--I keep DAN for the medical insurance, not for the magazine.

 

[tursiops]

Instruction from a CDS instructor does not guarantee top quality instruction, nor has it in many years and some of the worst instructors in cave country are CDS instructors

Insert TDI in place of CDS and your statement is still true.
Do we need a new set of procedures whereby no training is allowed unless YOU give the OK for that instructor?

So what value do you see for new cave divers? If they aren't guaranteed quality cave instruction, what are they getting other than access to Cow for part of their training?

Please, how do you "guarantee" quality cave instruction?

 

[tbone1004]

Insert TDI in place of CDS and your statement is still true.
Do we need a new set of procedures whereby no training is allowed unless YOU give the OK for that instructor?


Please, how do you "guarantee" quality cave instruction?

You could also insert IANTD, NAUI, and others in there, that's the point, you can't guarantee it. The question to you of why you believe the the CDS holds value as an agency to perspective cave divers over that of the other agencies? Why did you choose not to answer it?

@JahJahwarrior my issue is that they continue to talk about what they did, not what they're doing. The conferences and access to Cow aren't enough, they used to do tremendous things and through probably 15 years of mismanagement have brought themselves into irrelevance. I'm curious what value others see to keep the organization going and I want to see what they're doing to turn it around. I haven't seen anything yet, so I'm not going to hold my breath and until I see some board members actually doing things to earn donations back, I'm just not going to. Other organizations are doing far more with my money than the CDS would.

 

[grantctobin]

Insert TDI in place of CDS and your statement is still true.
Do we need a new set of procedures whereby no training is allowed unless YOU give the OK for that instructor?


Please, how do you "guarantee" quality cave instruction?

I don’t think you’ve addressed Tom’s question of “why is that?”

 

[tursiops]

You could also insert IANTD, NAUI, and others in there, that's the point, you can't guarantee it. The question to you of why you believe the the CDS holds value as an agency to perspective cave divers over that of the other agencies? Why did you choose not to answer it?

Now you are either being silly or aggressive. Who said CDS was better than the others? How about the same? Happy now?