Nitrox on OW Cert Dives?

[2DiveOrNot2Dive]

Someone in another thread posted that a person at their LDS suggesting diving on Nitrox during the OW dives. Is this possible? I'm going to be doing my OW dives next month and I am very interested in getting Nitrox certified as well. However, I thought that OW was a prerequisite for Nitrox (I'm talking about PADI here, in case it matters). Can the two courses be combined or something so that you can dive your initial OW check-out dives on Nitrox?

 

[Somethin-Fishey]

Recent change...you can combine to a point. I think your first 2 (of 4 total) must be on air, but your last 2 OW checkout dives can be on nitrox and get that cert also.

 

[MB]

I am very interested in getting Nitrox certified as well. However, I thought that OW was a prerequisite for Nitrox... Can the two courses be combined...

Some agencies teach nitrox as part of their OW class. Whether its a good idea depends on how tuned in the student is, and whether the course is more than a 3-day certification give-away.

I've taught students who had to really work to put all the pieces together during their initial dives. Adding another variable wasn't a good idea. But I've also had students who were so tuned in, with wonderful buoyancy and UW awareness, that nitrox would be a good addition to their class. Now add the nature of the class. When teaching a university-based class there's often ample time and pool practice to master basic techniques during the OW class. The same is true for some private classes where the students have not been in a hurry, and they wanted to really gain mastery before heading out on their own. OTOH, some of the other private classes I've taught, I've been happy to forego the temptation to add more material and skills. Finally, there's the infamous fast-track classes: it seems like an altogether poor idea.

Some folks will argue that nitrox is no big deal, but excessive task loading removes enjoyment and learning, and introduces unneeded risk. There is no downside to mastering buoyancy, basic skills, and learning to make sound judgement calls UW before adding complexity to dives and dive planning. OTOH, if you have time in your course to really master the basics and nitrox, its a nice combination.

YMMV

Let us know what you decide and how your class goes!

 

[Jason Ooi]

Hi,
depend which agency, they may have minimum standards for GO. You have to check with your instructor see how his professional advice.


Happy dive

Cheer
Jason

 

[Fionab]

I am firmly in the camp of teaching nitrox as soon as possible, BSAC will be introducing nitrox in to their Ocean diver course very soon.

As for task loading of students I don't see a problem with pumping all trainees tanks with 32% which is good to 30m a depth they shouldn't be at anyway. If you are teaching in a sheltered water environment we have a few inland sites which are very good for training and the depth of the site is within the max depth for the mix where is the task loading. Trainees are making multiple training ascents and a richer mix can only be a good thing.

 

[vkalia]

IMO, nitrox should be taught at a level where the student has demonstrated an ability to follow a dive plan to a more rigorous extent than normal/prevalent. To me, that is more important than whether it is done after OW or after AOW.

I agree with MB that a lot of OW students dont really need the additional burden of learning at this point. Even the fast learners *may* be better off working on their basics for the first 4 dives, and then doing the nitrox later.

Side note - I really dont see why one has to do *any* dives to get a nitrox certification. I like the TDI approach here.

Vandit

 

[oceandrifter]

As for PADI, you can do Open Water dive #4 on enriched air but not #3. The student must be at least 15 and the instructor must be a Enriched Air Specialty Instructor.

 

[SeaLevelScuba]

Within the PADI system you can get the Enriched Air experience, but not the specialty rating during your certification dives for the Openwater certification level. The one dive (4th) that is allowed can be credited toward the full specialty rating when you participate in the Enriched Air Nitrox course. Below is the current course standard (PADI) relating to EAN diving on an OW certification dive.

If you are a PADI Enriched Air Specialty Instructor you may combine Open Water Training Dive 4 with Dive 1 from the PADI Enriched Air Diver Specialty course. This allows you to introduce enriched air nitrox diving to student divers as part of their final training dive and credit the dive toward both courses and certifications. Refer to your “Enriched Air Diver Specialty Course Instructor Outline” for more information.

To combine Open Water Dive 4 and Enriched Air Dive 1:
1. Student divers must be at least 15-years-old and have successfully completed Open Water Training Dives 1-3.
2. Dive must be made with enriched air having 32 percent oxygen or higher. Student divers must plan the dive within the no decompression limits using the Enriched Air RDP for EANx32 or 36. If the dive will be made with a blend other than 32 or 36, the diver must use the EANx RDP with less oxygen than the actual blend. Use of enriched air dive computers is also recommended, but not required.
3. You must give the Dive Today briefing as outlined for Enriched Air Training Dive 1, with students demonstrating mastery and understanding. You may integrate this information into the Training Dive 4 briefing.
4. Student divers must successfully complete Practical Application 1 prior to Enriched Air Training Dive 1.
5. Student divers must complete and sign the Liability Release and Assumption of Risk Agreement for Enriched Air (Nitrox) Diving (where legally allowed) prior to the dive.
6. Student divers must be directly supervised using Open Water Diver course ratios.
7. The maximum depth is 18 metres/60 feet, or the depth at which the blend reaches a PO2 of 1.4 ata/bar, whichever is less.

And the standard from the EAN Spec. Course:
Student Qualifications
To qualify to take the PADI Enriched Air Diver course, an individual must:
1. Be certified as a PADI Open Water Diver, or
• have a qualifying certification from another training organization, or
• have successfully completed Training Dives 1 through 3 in the PADI Open Water Diver course and be completing the combined Training Dive 4/Enriched Air Training Dive 1 option. Students completing this option must be certified as PADI Open Water Divers prior to Enriched Air Training Dive 2. (See Course Structure and Sequence in Section One and Enriched Air Training Dive 1 in Section Two for more details and standards requirements for this option).
2. Be 15 years of age or older.
3. Complete and sign the Liability Release and Express Assumption of Risk for Enriched Air (Nitrox) Diving (where legally permitted).
4. Confined water training or practical application sessions may be added at the instructor’s discretion. As a preassessment, the instructor may hold a confined water session that includes a scuba skills review prior to the course.
5. Because this program applies Recreational Dive Planner use and skills extensively, the instructor should ensure that students are familiar with the RDP table and how to use it. The Enriched Air RDPs are in table format.

This of course does not stop the instructor from certifying you as an Openwater diver after the 4th certification dive and, and proceeding to do the second dive of the EAN course. The one thing I would caution about doing something like this is to be sure that the academics are properly taught, since there really isn't any new in-water skills associated with EAN diving, the new skills come directly from the academics, failure to recieve the academics and understanding them would put yourself at risk.

All in all, they are 2 seperate courses with their own specific learning objectives. From my experience the content of the EAN course really doesn't fit into the OW program until after chapter 4 and the RDP is understood throughly. The EAN course requires an OW student to have successfully completed OW training dives 1-3 before participating in EAN training, this allows for the 4th OW dive to be counted toward the EAN certification giving the standards above before the actual knowledge development for EAN.

Hopefully this helps you.

Schott

 

[kensuguro]

not sure of the details about PADI policy, but I think it's good to have the option of doing nitrox at the same time. It's good for the learning diver, since you learn more about pressure related oxygen/nitrogen hazards, and also the nitrox course may become a good bridge to AOW. I'd say whatever that keeps up the motivation is good.

In terms of actually using nitrox tho, I don't use it unless I get the fill for free. (like when I'm assisting) Or when I know the dive situation is going to be really good. I mean, it's another $15 in the mix.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Whether its a good idea depends on how tuned in the student is, and whether the course is more than a 3-day certification give-away.

And that... is it.
Rick