Newbie Drysuit Question

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gstroupe

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Location
Rhode Island
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200 - 499
Hi all. I'm in the market for a dry suit and wanted some advice from my cold water diving brethren. I only plan on using the suit for cold water dives but that will include wrecks. I've seen alot of debate over neoprene vs. Trilams and wanted to ask that question again given that I only plan on using the suit in these conditions. I'm leaning toward neoprene given its insulating and durable nature. Now that hypercrushed suits are available are those the "best of both worlds"? I thought it appropriate to ask the experts :).

Regards,
G
 
gstroupe:
Hi all. I'm in the market for a dry suit and wanted some advice from my cold water diving brethren. I only plan on using the suit for cold water dives but that will include wrecks. I've seen alot of debate over neoprene vs. Trilams and wanted to ask that question again given that I only plan on using the suit in these conditions. I'm leaning toward neoprene given its insulating and durable nature. Now that hypercrushed suits are available are those the "best of both worlds"? I thought it appropriate to ask the experts :).

Hopefully I can shed some light on the subject.

There are 4 materials for drysuits......

Neoprene - Regular
Thermal Properties - Some at shallower depths. As depth increases, the thermal properties become negligible. I don't consider this a feature at all.
Bouyancy Characteristics - Positively bouyant near the surface. As you descent, the material compresses and becomes less bouyant. This causes a problem for newer divers (and even some experienced divers) as they get shallower, causing difficulties to stay down.
Durability - Although it has great stretching capabilities, it is not nearly as durable as a trilam or vulcanized rubber. It is more susceptable to tears, but is easily repaired. I find neoprene seals need to be tighter to ensure that you do not leak water down your arms or neck. For some people, this is very uncomfortable and cause a gag reflex.
Care / Maintenance - These suits take a long time to dry out, both inside and out (you get condensation inside the suit, particularly on hot days). They also need to be properly hung up so as to not compress the bubbles out of the neoprene. They take up more space when travelling because you are not supposed to roll these up tight or squish it into a ball.

Neoprene - Crushed
Thermal Properties - Negligible. The nitrogen bubbles have been compressed out of the material leaving little to no thermal value.
Bouyancy Characteristics - Negligible. The bubbles are compressed / crushed out of the suit material.
Durability - Same as Regular Neoprene.
Care / Maintenance - Same as Regular Neoprene to a slightly lesser extent.

Bi/Tri-Laminates
Thermal Properties - None. Typically made from a rubber membrane sandwiched between a layer of ballistic cordura nylon on the outside, and a thin layer of material on the inside, typically a nylon. The nice thing about these suits is that you can select the amount of thermal protection you want to wear underneath based on current conditions, and have more room inside to accomodate more thermal protection.
Bouyancy Characteristics - None. Because of the makeup of these suits, they are pretty well neutral in bouyancy.
Durability - Extremely durable. Can be rolled up and are more compact than the neoprene suits. The seals are typically latex, which form better to your neck and wrists, and are more comfortable, but provide no thermal protection. Most suits come with a neck apron built onto the suit to keep you warm. Costs to repair these suits are a little more, and the latex seals are more delicate than neoprene. No stretch in these suits, so you get them sized a little larger (the test is to try one on and see if you can touch your toes without the suit drawing tight). Not too large though, otherwise you start trapping air.
Care Maintenance - Easy to take care of because of their durability. They dry out extremely quick, and after being dried out, can be rolled up for storage.

Vulcanized Rubber
I don't have any experience with these suits, but am told they have very similar characteristics to the Bi/Trilaminates. They are easier to repair, with the exception of the seals, in which case, are similar to the trilams. I am also told they are more cumbersome and restrictive due to the nature of the rigid heavy rubber.

I hope this helps a bit. Do some more research, try a few on, talk to local divers that have them, and get what works best for YOU.

I personally prefer trilaminate, but most of my buddies are diving neoprene. I always laugh when they're trying to eliminate every single last bit of air from their suit when we come back into shallow water because the change in bouyancy from the suit.
 
I own both a crushed neoprene and a trilam. Both are good suits but have some differences as well. As stated above the trilam needs a little more room then the crushed. The crushed is warmer then the trilam and also stands up to more abuse. My diving is very restrictive caves and deep interior of wrecks. The crushed takes longer to dry and is heavier out of the water when wet. It fits tighter though and has less drag in the h20. It realy depends on your diving IMHO. If you are not doing a lot of penetration then trilam is cheaper and has some good features. If wear, fit, and abuse is most important then crushed.

There is another suit as well and that is the compressed neoprene. The only suit that is on the market that is crushed is the DUI, the rest that are not regular neoprene are compressed. Compressed is more boyant at the surface and will not wear the same as crushed. Though there are some very good top of the line compressed on the market as well.
 
I think the summary above was pretty good but I don't agree with all of it. For example, trilam material itself is more durable than neoprene. However this also means seals tend to let go sooner in trilams than neoprene since trilam material does not stretch so all the stretch force is transfered to the seal/glue.

Also, cost was not referenced in the comparison. You can buy a brand new O'Neill Neoprene drysuit for $500 for example. The cost for a trilam or even crushed neoprene is 3 times this cost and up. If cost is not a consideration, there are better suits. In my opinion there is no better value for your dollar in a straight neoprene drysuit.

Neo suits are also more streamlined than trilam - they are snug against you more like a wetsuit.

--Matt
 
Matt, thanks, I totally forgot about costs. Neoprene / Vulcanized are the cheapest without a doubt.

As for Trilam/Neoprene ... overall, I believe the trilam is more durable. I did make note that the latex seals are more fragile than neoprene. However, the only time the seal is subjected to any stretching, is when you're pulling the suit on and taking it off.

Any stress on the seal is eliminated with the help of unscented talcum / baby powder or corn starch. Mine slide on effortlessly with no stress. I've seen guys tear their neoprene seals because they have to struggle so much to get them on and off.

Bobby F, The issue about drag in the water is a non-issue. Unless you're swimming at rediculously high speeds, the drag of a suit in the water is negligible. A proper fitting trilam shouldn't be so loose that it has huge folds hanging everywhere once the air in it has compressed or purged under water.

I do agree though, that they potentially could snag on stuff when penetration diving.
 
GStroupe-

I still would love to sell you mine!!

However, I dive in New England, year round with my DUI TLS-350SE. I am getting my new CLX-450 tomorrow, which (again) is why I am selling my other suit. With varying levels of insulation, you'll never be too hot or too cold in a trilam suit. This has been my preference since I started diving dry. For me, a big part of diving dry was getting rid of the physical restriction that wetsuits posed. When I first started with my trilam, it was as easy as putting on a pair of pants, as comfortable as an old pair of jeans, and as warm (year round) as a snowmobile suit.

I've never dove with a neoprene suit, but I've dove with people who have. To me, the typical neoprene suit (like an O'Neill suit) doesn't give much in the way of flexibility. The DUI CF material, which is neoprene is a different story, because it is not as tight fitting as other suits.

When I bought my suit, believe it or not, it was an impulse buy. I didn't do any research on which type of suits were available, which were better, etc. I happened across a drysuit at a decent price, and I bought it. But for once, my ignorance didn't catch up with me, because I am still really glad that I bought that suit.

If you are going to be at the quarry this Saturday, let me know and I will bring the suit so you can check it out. I'll be the guy with the yellow tent!
 
you could get a drysuit with neoprene on the bottom and trilam on top...i think dui have one...that gives you the durability on the legs..i have a whites version of that, but it was more i got a good deal on it than went specifically loking for one like that...
 
Your talking about the FLX 50 50, I have one, only dry suit I"ve ever dove but I'm happy with it.

What I like about the top portion is the tirliam doesn't "grab" at me or my insulation like the neoprene does, I think I would have been just as happy in a 350, but the neoprene bottom fits a little tighter on me so less air to deal with in the legs, crushed neoprene that is.
 
I had a unisuit neoprene and it was hands down warmer than my TLS350 (with a dui 35-50 degree undergarment PLUS a polyester top & bottom extra). only benefit is fit & no air on boots.
 
I feel toasted by TLS350 and 400g thinsulate at 40s F water.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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