New wreck coming to Tobermory?

[Jared0425]

Here is an article I saw this morning.

Council gives nod to disposal of S.S. Norisle to be scuttled at Tobermory for divers

12/22 - Assiginack, Ont. – The Expositor has confirmed that Assiginack Township is in negotiations with the Tobermory Maritime Association (TMA) regarding the sale/donation of the S.S. Norisle to be relocated to Tobermory, sunk and used as a dive site.

“Council had been discussing ways to get rid of the Norisle and we had an inquiry from a marine group (TMA),” explained Assignack Mayor Paul Moffatt. “We are interested in getting it out of our harbor. We can’t keep it forever—it’s deteriorating. Nothing is formalized yet, but we offered it to them if they can get the okay from the government. We can’t afford to keep it.”

Assiginack Clerk Alton Hobbs confirmed that council was approached by the TMA in the fall about the Norisle and that council authorized staff to negotiate with the group. When asked if the ship would be sold or donated, Mr. Hobbs responded that staff are still in negotiations with the TMA.

The Expositor contacted long time S.S. Norisle Steamship Society member Jean McLennan Monday night who commented, “Council (the township) has been served by the Friends of the Norisle (S. S. Norisle Steamship Society) and it’s (the sale/donation of the Norisle) not going to happen.”

Ms. McLennan and the S.S. Norisle Steamship Society learned about the negotiation from a social media article and not from the township.

“I haven’t been notified,” said Dave Ham, past chair of the S.S. Norisle Steamship Society, of the sale. “I resigned from being the chair in September, but I said I would step up if anything critical came up. If the town is doing this, they have just sold the project from under us. The Friends (steamship society) have a lot more money invested in the Norisle than the town. Assiginack Township has garnered over a million dollars out of the province over the years to turn it into an historical attraction.”

“This is a terrible waste of a valuable resource,” Mr. Ham continued. “The Assiginack council is working against the community, in my opinion, by doing this. It’s a shame—what’s next? Selling Queen Street or Arthur Street to Little Current? Nothing would surprise me now.”

As reported previously, the S.S. Norisle Steamship Society hired Compenso Communications, based out of Owen Sound, to help them with their goal of seeing the 70-year-old steamer refitted and plying Great Lakes waters once again. It is currently docked in Manitowaning Bay, where it has been berthed for over 40 years, in the care of Assiginack Township, since the former Owen Sound Transportation Company ferry was decommissioned for use and replaced by the M.S. Chi-Cheemaun.

Late last year, the Society approached council, asking the municipality to apply for a grant from the Ministry of Tourism on its behalf for the commission of a study. This would have required one-third funding from Assiginack to the tune of $90,000, which was offered up by a member of the Society in exchange for a tax receipt—a suggestion that made council nervous.

Last spring, Assiginack council carried a motion, asking the province to take over the responsibility of the Norisle, although nothing ever materialized from that communication.

Just at press time, The Expositor received this statement from Michael Marcotte, representing TMA: “Our mission is to return the Norisle to Tobermory where she served for 28 years and retire her to the museum of Tobermory waters. We feel this a better end then a scrapyard. We have had unequivical support from stakeholders. At this point in time we are securing permits to be able to sink the Norsile, although approvals are still pending.”

Manitoulin Expositor

 

[maj2]

Interesting...
Some info on the Norisle for anyone interested:
SS Norisle - Wikipedia
Friends of the Norisle
Norisle group’s fundraiser begins $18.5 million quest

While I do like to see ships like this turned into/maintained as museums, I think the budget proposed in the third article will be a bit tough to achieve.

Beautiful ship though...

 

[shoredivr]

Oh, I can hardly wait, sailed on the Norisle as a kid and would think she'd be a great addition to Toby.

 

[Stoo]

Hi all... Our plan is to acquire the Norisle this spring and then spend the season cleaning her and readying her for divers. We hope to be able to scuttle her in the spring of 2018 at a site near the Niagara II.

We have recently had a bit of a set-back in that the "Friends" have launched a legal action against the township that currently owns the ship. Their basic complaint (and we are not unsympathetic to their claim) is that they have invested some significant monies trying to restore the vessel and commissioning studies to look at turning her into a Georgian Bay cruise ship. Personally, I think the consultants sold them a really unrealistic plan and that it's a plan that just won't float (pun intended).

The funny thing is that both our group (The Tobermory Maritime Association) and the Friends of the Norisle have a common goal... saving this great old ship from the wreckers, but we have different approaches. We feel that our plan is the only practical solution.

The Norisle saw her last year of service in the summer of '74, which was the first year I dove in Tobermory. I vaguely remember her leaving town under a plume of black smoke. She was replaced that season by the MS ChiCheemaun, which still runs today. The "Cheech" serves as my alarm clock in the morning... her horn is aimed directly at my bedroom window.

I'll keep you posted on our plans as they evolve!

 

[Jared0425]

Stoo, I saw the article the next day when they said they would launch a lawsuit against whomever. The money they thought they would need and to operate the vessel is far more than what anyone would pay for an obsolete vessel. The $30 million could be spent on a brand new, even larger cruise vessel than the Norisle. I'd make the 6hr drive to see her go down! I hope that TMA gets her before the scrappers do.

 

[Stoo]

One of the guys on our committee said the same thing... for the cost of restoration, someone could build a replica... The whole "cruise ship" plan is awesome, apart from the fact that it likely impossible to implement. Everything from the cost of restoration, to the utter lack of port facilities that can manage a small passenger ship to the lack of skilled people who can operate a triple-expansion steam engine... they all make that plan impractical I think.

The TMA is not named in the suit so we're happy to let things take their course. One nice thing about this vessel is that most of the remediation work has been done pretty well since it has been open to the public over the years.

We're pretty confident that the scrappers won't get involved in this. The initial support for the sinking from the various agencies is strong, so we are optimistic that the necessary approvals will come in due course. There is precedent in the sinking of the Niagara and I don't think anyone can argue that that hasn't been a huge success.

I will confess that I was never a fan of the sinking of the Niagara, only because that ship had no connection to Tobermory. Not so the Norisle... She's a part of Tobermory's history and belongs here.

 

[Stoo]

I make no claims to being a competent Photoshop guy, but isn't this sweet... ;-)

 

[Jared0425]

Apparently this group is highly delusional on this matter.


The battle over the Norisle: lawsuit filed over future of historic ferry

1/22 - Manitowaning, Ont. – The fight over whether a historic Manitoulin Island steamship will sail again or be intentionally sunk is expected to be settled in a courtroom. The citizens group that is trying to restore the S.S. Norisle is now suing the town it was once working with on a new tourist attraction.

The SS Norisle Steamship Society filed the suit in December 2016 against the Township of Assiginack — the municipality that covers Manitowaning — where the steamship has lived in the harbor since the 1970s.

The organization is seeking $10 million in damages, and wants an order preventing the town from going ahead with plans to give the ship to another group on the Bruce Peninsula that plans to sink it and use it as a dive site.

The Norisle ran the ferry route from Tobermory to Manitoulin Island from 1946 until 1964. It was later replaced by the MS Chi-Cheemaun. The historic vessel was operated as a museum in Manitowaning until 2007, when a citizens group — which is now the SS Norisle Steamship Society — began planning to restore the ship and take tourists out on cruises of Lake Huron.

According to court documents, the society raised over $1 million in private and government funding and struck an agreement with the township in 2008 to eventually transfer ownership of the ship to the society. But then in 2015, the society alleges, the municipality suddenly backed out and didn't give an explanation as to why.

On top of its monetary demands, the steamship society lawsuit seeks an order where it is named the owner of the Norisle. Both sides declined to comment, as the matter is before the courts.

CBC

 

[Stoo]

There is some merit to their case in that they have raised, and spent, a lot of money on this ship. She has been cleaned up to some extent but she's little more than a shell now. Certainly she is a long, long way from being ready to meet current safety standards, assuming she even can be.

The question of the transfer of ownership is interesting. My understanding (and it is only that since I have no inside knowledge of the discussions between the current owners and the "Society") is that it was an "implied" thing only. But the Township has waited for almost a decade for this group to take some sort of steps to move their plan forward and it simply hasn't happened.

I have read the consultant's report on the feasibility of converting her to a boutique cruise ship, and in many ways, it's laughable. I can't comment on the estimated refurbishment costs since I am not a marine architect, but I can tell you that the estimate doubled within a few months, and that was many years ago. Apart from that, the "ports of call" that they named in their study for the most part, have no ability to berth a passenger vessel and it would take hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars to prepare the docking facilities. Curiously, the current port is not even on the list.

There are other concerns with their plan as well... they want to keep the same engine, but finding someone who knows hot to run it will be hard. She burns coal, and while there are other similar ships operating (SS Sequin) that burn coal, I suspect getting approval to burn this filthy fuel these days would be tough.

The consultants also discuss the season length, and as a former resort manager in the area, I think that they are wildly optimistic.

Please note that I do not speak for the Tobermory Maritime Association... I'm just an interested bystander. I think that it's fair to say however that the TMA is not unsympathetic to the group's plight. There are some dedicated people in that group and their plan is a really neat one... I just think that it isn't remotely feasible. I think it's also a fair criticism that the TMA's interest in this is not entirely altruistic. Both dive shops in town are strong boosters of this project and clearly they have a commercial interest in sinking this ship, just as they did with the Niagara.

The TMA is moving ahead with trying to get the required permits to scuttle the Norisle with the expectation that at some point, the suit with be settled or dismissed. While I think it unlikely that they will be successful, they might be, and if that's the case, so be it. If not, and once the permits are in place, she could be readied to sink very quickly, largely because the Society has already done a ton of the remediation work.

One thing I think is interesting though, is that both the TMA and the Society actually share a similar interest, in that we both want to save the Norisle from the scrapyard, which is currently the most likely outlook for her. Both groups want to see her preserved, so it's really just a different way of doing it!

 

[Stoo]

Just by way of an update (or at least another opinion on the fate of this old ship) comes by way of an Op-ed in the local paper... I don't know the author, but he apparently lives on Manitoulin Island where the Norisle currently sits. He is kinda of saying the same things as I mentioned above and also provides some updated costs for restoration.

If you aren't familiar with the vessels in the area, the Chi-Cheemaun he refers to is the replacement ferry that runs from Tobermory to South Bay on Manitoulin. It's a much larger ship and recently underwent a renovation of JUST her cafeteria and that alone cost $2.4 million.

Calmer heads need to examine the fate of the Norisle

Without a practical business plan, who would invest their capital in such a project?

To the Expostior:

It would be most interesting to learn the exact justification for $10.25 million in compensation claimed against the municipality, and to know exactly how far the Norisle project has progressed. It also appears that the cost to refit the vessel has more than doubled now to $35 million, yet the projected annual operating profit of $427,000 appears not to have changed and simple analyses would give a 1.2 percent return on investment, assuming an investor put all cash into the project.

There does not seem to be publicly available information as to what the finished product would look like and how it would compete against more modern cruise vessels already operating on the Great Lakes as far as service, price point and amenities. Considering that the Chi-Cheemaun cafeteria refit cost $2.4 million, money does not seem to go very far for marine renovations. Having only pictures and old movies of the Norisle to rely on, it seems that it always left a thick cloud of black smoke when it sailed and today we all know how bad burning coal is.

Finally, I would like to know how the reported $2 million spent on the vessel was raised and exactly what was received for it; it is certainly not evident from the outside appearance of the vessel. Since the bulk of the funding to refit apparently has not been raised nor is there any mention at least publicly of what commitments have been secured, such spending may ultimately prove to be unwise.

Considering the risk involved in such a venture, I doubt too many individuals will direct their pension funds be invested in the Norisle. Unless a more attractive, achievable business plan is put forth it is highly unlikely any private capital will be raised.

Ronald Kay
Brampton and Assiginack