New luxfer tank

[Dryglove]

Luxfer introduces the Luxfer Limited line, world’s first composite scuba cylinder with the world’s highest-pressure rating


October 22, 2002—After more than five years of development and testing, Luxfer Gas Cylinders has launched the first two models in the “Luxfer Limited” line, the world’s highest-pressure scuba diving cylinders—also the first composite cylinders in the scuba industry.

The new S85W (85-cubic-foot capacity) and S106 (106-cubic-foot capacity) were introduced at the Diving Equipment & Marketing Association (DEMA) international trade show in Las Vegas, Nevada, in late October.

The pressure rating for Luxfer Limited cylinders is 4,350 psi (300 bar), which offers significantly greater air capacity and diving time for scuba enthusiasts. By comparison, a standard Luxfer 80-cubic-foot scuba cylinder is rated at 3,000 psi (207 bar).

Compatible with existing diving equipment, “Luxfer Limited” cylinders are suitable for use with nitrox and oxygen-enriched diving mixtures. The new high-technology cylinders feature Luxfer’s proprietary 6061 aluminum alloy and proven fiberglass hoop-wrap technology.

Luxfer advertising is focusing on the extended diving time offered by the new cylinders. A promotional illustration shows two scuba diving partners swimming among schools of fish under the headline, “Spend more time with your friends.”

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/news/releases/20021022b.shtml

 

[Finesse]

I’m very curious about this as someone just gave me an earful about this……
I've heard some not so good things about this tank (dont know if its right , wrong or indifferent ) BUT...fill us all in...

Dive shops (at least around here) were screaming over the high pressure tanks when they fist came out the 3,500 psi version .....and the ability to fill'em......now 4,350 WOW...What kind of load does this put on the filling station and its compressor???

I've also heard that the tank is to be hydro'd every 3 years....Ok thats not that big of a deal....

But..... the real kicker is.......Its a throw away tank!!!..... 5 hydro cycles ....15 years and its in the garbage!!!!! NOT COOL !!!!Apparently this is similar to something fire depts. use in our area and the town council is having convulsions and is going ape because they have to replace a couple hundred S.C.B.A. packs....

Any truth to anything above?????

 

[Mverick]

Heiser offers a steel hP tank that's rated 4400psi. It's a 190. It also weighs around 90lbs. So Luxfers isn't the "World's highest pressure".

But I wouldn't buy either one....

Heiser is too heavy and I don't like the Carbon wrapped tanks.

 

[scubafanatic]

.........ah, the power of marketing......PSI of pressure is irrelevant unless taken into context with the tank's internal volume!

The new 85 cu. ft. tank @ 4350 psi still only holds 85 cu. ft.....which is only 5 cu. ft. more than the 'standard' 80 cu. ft. 3000 psi AL80....so, all other things being equal, will give you only about 6% more bottom time...not exactly earth shattering!

Just try getting a 4350 psi fill on the typical dive boat....and most dive shops can't/won't come anywhere near that either.

Most places I dive will only go to 3000 psi hot, which translates to 2700--2800psi cold....which for this new composite tank will come out to 53 -- 55 cu. ft.......which pretty much makes it equal in the real world to the classic 63 or 67 cu. ft. AL tanks....and probably a lot more expensive....and with much worse bouyancy characteristics to boot!

If Luxfer had a brain, they'd imitate those lightweight/small titanium scuba tanks the Russian military developed.......rust-proof/strong/light/high-pressure....
.......sure they'd be more expensive than AL/Steel....but produced in any sort of volume probably wouldn't be any more expensive than the composite Luxfer tanks.

I think I'll opt for the new line of HP 'conventional PST steel tanks instead.

 

[Spearchucker]

If that tank is anything like LUXFER's 100 CF tank, it will be like swimming around with a water heater on your back.

 

[Big O]

Finesse once bubbled...

I've also heard that the tank is to be hydro'd every 3 years....Ok thats not that big of a deal....

But..... the real kicker is.......Its a throw away tank!!!..... 5 hydro cycles ....15 years and its in the garbage!!!!! NOT COOL !!!!Apparently this is similar to something fire depts. use in our area and the town council is having convulsions and is going ape because they have to replace a couple hundred S.C.B.A. packs....

I think the life is even shorter. Im on a Vol. Fire Dept, and I believe the life of a wrapped tank is only 10 years. I may be wrong, but you are correct the lifespan is set the moment the cylinder is manufactured.

Im trying to get our Fire Cheif to purchase only steel scba cylinders because of this. We are in a rual area, and very rarely ever breathe up 2 cylinders per man per fire, so the weight savings aren't that substantial.

Dave

 

[thethumper]

Anybody consider that a composite tank will be more uh.... Boyant?

Just a thought.

 

[427HEVN]

After cruising Luxfer's website on the these new composite tanks...I found a specification page that shows bouyancy http://www.luxfercylinders.com/products/scuba/specifications/us_imperial.shtml. Can someone help interpret what these figures are since I'm a newby?

For instance, they show an empty bouyancy of 3.1 lbs for the S106 compared to 4.4 lbs for the Luxfer 80. Not sure how these numbers relate, but I thought the higher number was more bouyant?

Scubafanatic is correct that the S85 they show doesn't hold much more air than their normal 80, even with higher pressure. But again, looking at their spec sheet, the dimensions of the S106 more closely resemble the S80 (length, diameter) so from a size perspective, you are getting allot more air in the same size package. The S85 compares more to the 63. Proportionately, the 106 should give 33% more air than the 80 and the 85 35% more air than the 63.

Can you tandem up the 85 and really power up to 170? Anyone know the max dimensions on tandems?

I do know this, fire industry SCBA composites do have a limited life of 15 years, with hydro's every 3 so I assume these do too. But 4350psi? Wow! You would think the equipment in the scuba industry could perform to similar fill equipment in the fire industry. Our city fire department easily fills the 4500 psi composite cylinders they own. Even if the dive boats can't currently fill these, you would think a retrofit for x compressor would be fairly easy. There are also paintball 4500 and 5000 tanks out there so they've gotta be able to fill them too. If these guys can fill higher pressure, why can't the dive shops?

 

[scubafanatic]

..........many dive shops are LAZY, that's why you'll never get 4350 psi fills! Probably 95% of the tanks out there (at least in the US) are the universal 'standard' 3000 psi AL 80's........and many shops treat air fills as a low buck annoyance, not a profit center, and will be damned if they will spend their precious time resetting the compressor psi pressure to accomodate 'special' fills.........the shop where I was OW certified will only do 3000 psi fills ,no matter what tank you have LP or HP......and several of the local dive sites will only do 3000 psi fills because they have all the tank filling business they want anyway, filling AL 80's all day long, and couldn't care less about accomodating the occassional oddball LP steel or HP steel tank that shows up...it's 3000 psi, take it or leave it! ......they refuse to take the time to adjust the compressor for 'custom fills'....so good luck ever getting a 4350 psi fill!

There's one local shop that will fill my LP steels to whatever I want......for all the others it's 'my way or the highway'.

I guess the 'good' news will be all the fire sale prices these new tanks will be going for once they start showing 'en masse' on E-Bay......so if you still really want one, you'll get it for a song if you wait a little bit longer....there will be a lot of very upset divers flooding the market soon!

I'm stlll not sure I see the point of the S106.......a tank with the size of a AL80, but he real-world capacity of a AL73 (if filled to 3000 psi, not 4350 psi).