Need a Little Advice

[Divecop]

First off I'd like to say hello to all as a new user. I am in the market for purchasing a new BC. I have been diving for about 12 years off and on and this will be my FIRST personal BC. The kind of diving I will be doing will be SAR with the Sheriff's Department as well as rec when I go to Fla to visit family. The recommendations I've received from other SAR divers is the Zeagle Ranger, Zeagle 911, Aeris Atmos XT, Beauchat, and a few others. I've dove a back inflat, weight integrated before (Dacor Rig) and liked it but don't know if I'd own one. All I get from my LDS is him trying to sell me something off the shelf (pretty much Cressi-Sub) and I'm not sure if that's the line I'd want to take. Understood that I should dive before I buy, but I'm looking for a starting point. I'm a big guy 6'6" 235lbs. Any and all advice from you all (as well as others) will make this purchase a little easier.

 

[diverlady]

I have a Zeagle Concept II Sport (which they don't make anymore) and it's back inflate, weight- integrated. I love it. Many other Zeagle owners will say the same.

You'll probably get some responses telling you to look at the backplate and wings combo. That seems to be a hit among the more techy type divers as well as some others. Do a search for it and you'll come up with the reasons they prefer that setup.

Mostly I've heard those who go to back inflate, never go back to the jacket style (although I'm sure there is the odd exception) and those that go BP & wings stay with that set up.

You've already got the idea - try, try, try!

Diverlady

 

[nyresq]

fellow PSD guy here. some guys like the back inflate BC, I use a transpac for my rec diving. but for call outs for dive jobs we use a jacket style cause of the simple reason an unconscious diver can't float upright with a back mounted BC inflated. It will just push the diver face down on the surface... something to consider. I'm also not a fan of weight intergrated BCs either. I use a plain old belt. but Zeagle does make good BCs and some of their ideas are nice but the "911" was NOT designed by anyone who was ever a PSD or has any clue what PSD is. It has too many D-rings and gadgets that are not needed for PSD. Take a look at www.teamlgs.com and go to the equipment section, and look at their LGS designed BC. Then look at the "911", you'll see what I mean. Zeagle is also stupid expensive. If your sold on the rear mount BC then look into a back plate system and wing.
Best bet is to buy a basic jacket type, then at some point down the line buy the zeagal or some other type of back mount you like for your rec use then put the jacket on your rescue setup.

just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less

 

[DA Aquamaster]

To say that all back inflate BC's will float you face down or to imply that all jacket style BC's will float you face up is an over generalization and incorrect.

TUSA's 4900 Imprex back inflate will foat you straight up with any tank as the weights are located nearly under the aircell. My current Genesis Recon will do the same thing with weight belt and with the integrated weights when steel tanks or doubles are used.

I am not sure what the special concern is with face up floating for public saftey diving. It's a situation where you will have a saftey diver and surface support and normally a full face mask with com equipment. Floating face up with no air in a full face mask will still kill you just as quick as floating face down.

In my opinion the back inflate has advantages in leaving the chest area clear and unemcumbered for dry suit use and make the BC less prone to snags and wear in low viz feel-your-way-along-the-bottom situations. Many back inflate BC's have gotten carried away with the tech "look" with excessive D-rings etc, but then so have many jacket style BC's.

I am not a fan of the Dacor Rig as I have seen various nuts and bolts fall off various dive buddy's Rigs on more than one occasion. The Genesis Recon has a similar design approach but has better attention to detail as I have not had a nut or bolt even come loose in 3 years (and about 300 dives) of using one.

I would agree with the statement that most divers who go with a back inflate or a BP/wing, never go back to a traditional jacket style.

 

[nyresq]

I made no statement that all jacket styles will hold you face up. And as far as back mounted BCs, I have yet to see anyone that will hold someone up right with a standard weight belt, with no weight belt, or when using a light aluminum tank.
with doubles and an integrated system that carries the weight behind you, yes it probably would work that way.
But in the PSD field, most teams will be using aluminum 80s for the cost factor. some well funded teams may have steels, but nobody except for specialized deep recovery teams is using doubles. I also haven't seen many teams using weight integrated BCs as most times the gear is set for multiple users and each member will have a specific weight belt to use. and when you state many jacket styles are getting very Tech looking, that is the exact reason I said to look into a "basic" jacket".
As for the concern about floating, not all teams will have FFMs with coms, again we go back to funding. A diver who may be in trouble and may be completely exausted or having a medical problem on the surface can inflate his BC and go limp, while the surface support can retreive him by the rope. In an ideal world, yes, every PSD has a FFM with coms, and that FFM will never be knocked loose, and the diver will never panic and rip the mask off to yell he's in trouble, and he will never pass out from a CO2 build up from hyperventilating in the mask with the surface vent open. If you think this is all fantasy, I have seen every one of the above scenarios happen first hand.
I didn't say that a jacket style was the only way to go. I merely sugested he look into one before he buys one. you'll also note that I stated I dive with a rear mount BC. the BC my team uses is a jacket style we tested and found to float a person upright with the gear we use.
So if your TUSA without weight in it (cause the first thing you do in an emergency situation is ditch all your weight) and with an almost empty standard aluminum 80 will float you face up, then I stand correct, and pray that you will take mercy on my soul:mean: But as I said we tried several BCs and no back mounts would do the above scenario with an empty dry suit.

and as I stated It is only my opinion speaking from experience and seeing things first hand.

 

[Waterborne]

I made no statement that all jacket styles will hold you face up. And as far as back mounted BCs, I have yet to see anyone that will hold someone up right with a standard weight belt, with no weight belt, or when using a light aluminum tank.
with doubles and an integrated system that carries the weight behind you, yes it probably would work that way.

I dive a properly balanced BP/wings, now with no weight belt and single AL80's all the time. With properly distibuted weight, I can float in an upright position without problem. I'll take a picture for you on my next dive if you want.
Also, on the weight ditching bit, shouldn't you be able to qwim up your rig from depth? Another question, if you have a drysuit, viewed as a redundant source of inflation, why would you not use it if needed?

 

[nyresq]

when you say "now with no weight belt and single AL80's all the time. With properly distibuted weight, I can float in an upright position without problem" what do you mean? do you dive with weight or not?

As far as ditching weight, I'm talking about a distressed diver, not someone who can swim up from depth.
and when doing Black water searches or "down and dirty" its a common practice to over weight a little to keep you on the bottom.

Not every dive team dives dry, again, budgets.

And if your the back up diver going after one of your own, and you find him uncon or worse, the first thing you do is ditch the guys belt.

Score, from your home page I'm guessing you also work as a Heli-jump diver with the APBA?

I worked for Stu Hayim and RECOVERY racing a couple of times as their jumper. (friends with the family) Doing that kind of rescue, a completly neutral BP/WINGS would be great, although I still made myself a little heavy when I did it to get down and under the boat faster.

BTW what does your team use for recovery dives and black water searches. And does your FD own the equipment? or is it all personally owned? If its personal gear do you all have a standard set up so everybody is the same.

 

[mrducks]

own a transpac (dive rite), zeagle ranger, and a oms iq pack.
i like the transpac best and the oms "bells and whistle thing" the least.

 

[mrducks]

get in touch with mark lonsdale out of la county, calif. search and rescue...he wrote a couple of books on your bussiness and knows his stuff where sar is involved.

following his advice would be prudent here.

*john corso at west side aquatics in west la can help u find mark.

 

[nyresq]

They list two books by mark lonsdale, one is hostage rescue weapons training, the other is a book on specialized tactical training. the cover has a Navy SEAL type dive with a rebreather and a machine gun. Are you talking about the same guy?

Or are these books he wrote about rescue diving published very recently?

I tried the barnes and noble web search and only came up with the same tactical diving book.

Any further info on his books and where to get them? If he has any about rescue, search and recovery, I would like to find one.