Mouldable mouthpiece on primary donate setup

[TMHeimer]

You are missing the point that the donor wants to donate the primary regulator, the one being used regularly. That is what is being taught by a large percentage of people today.

In all my dives, I have never been near a true OOA emergency. It is extremely unlikely to happen. If it does, as Don said, the OOA diver will be happy to get air in any condition. Don't sacrifice your comfort for an almost nonexistent chance it might provide a slight comfort advantage to someone being rescued.

On the other hand...

During the days I was teaching OW classes, it was common for mouthpieces on the instructional regulators to have to be replaced because someone had chewed through it. I could never understand it. In all my years and in all my dives, I have never had to replace a regulator for that reason. That regulator is very loose in my mouth, and I really don't think having a moldable mouthpiece would make much difference to me. I'm not sure I would notice.

Thanks-- understood. I've been out of it for a while and had no idea a large % were now being taught to donate the primary reg. Things changed since 2015 I guess. So I agree-- use the molded mouthpiece yourself and don't worry about donating it should a rare OOA occur.
I also agree that is curious how someone could chew through a regular mouthpiece, and I used one for at least 2-4 years as a new diver. Only reason I even thought of molded was one time off a charter in the Gulf of Mex. my normal mouthpiece was almost blown out of my mouth while descending the anchor line in I guess the "Loop" Current.
Then with the molded one I realised how much more secure & comfortable that was.

 

[D_Fresh]

I'm going to say that I'm in the "Any OOA Diver is happy simply happy to have air" camp... I also doubt that they'd be too thrown off by a custom mouthpiece.... Let's be realistic, any donated regulator is going to feel and breathe different than the original reg the OOA Diver was using... I do, however, think that the experience level of the OOA Diver likely plays a role here... A more experienced diver is (I think) more likely to ignore whatever uncomfortable sensation may come from a strange mouthpiece, whereas a novice may not.

This is a topic that I have had much internal debate about. I've seen it argued that something like a SeaCure may be too long for some people who have very sensitive gag reflexes. For some people, that could be very true, regardless of experience, their physiology just makes them gag easily...

So, as a result of not being totally convinced either way, I have settled on Octo donate. So far, I feel that's the safer side of "not sure" for my diving (rec, to 40m). My primary has a SeaCure, and I've dived secondary on necklace - primary donate. But because of other divers I am likely to encounter in my area (lots of novices, mostly PADI), I've decided to provide the yellow octo right in their face, as they've been trained. I'm open to suggestions, as Zef obviously is too.

If anyone has personal experience with sensitive gag reflexes, please share your experiences and thoughts on the matter, so we can all better understand.

 

[wstorms]

Worst case scenario is an out of gas diver who also has a strong gag reflex and being intolerant to your particular mouthpiece. So I would say it depends on who you dive with. If you only dive solo / with your family, why not simply give it a try and see if they have any issues with your mouthpiece? If it works, all good. If it doesn't work, you can change it before it becomes an actual OOG situation.
If you are teaching, guiding etc you are more likely to donate to somebody you don't know, so this is more of an issue then.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I'm going to say that I'm in the "Any OOA Diver is happy simply happy to have air" camp... I also doubt that they'd be too thrown off by a custom mouthpiece.... Let's be realistic, any donated regulator is going to feel and breathe different than the original reg the OOA Diver was using... I do, however, think that the experience level of the OOA Diver likely plays a role here... A more experienced diver is (I think) more likely to ignore whatever uncomfortable sensation may come from a strange mouthpiece, whereas a novice may not.

This is a topic that I have had much internal debate about. I've seen it argued that something like a SeaCure may be too long for some people who have very sensitive gag reflexes. For some people, that could be very true, regardless of experience, their physiology just makes them gag easily...

So, as a result of not being totally convinced either way, I have settled on Octo donate. So far, I feel that's the safer side of "not sure" for my diving (rec, to 40m). My primary has a SeaCure, and I've dived secondary on necklace - primary donate. But because of other divers I am likely to encounter in my area (lots of novices, mostly PADI), I've decided to provide the yellow octo right in their face, as they've been trained. I'm open to suggestions, as Zef obviously is too.

If anyone has personal experience with sensitive gag reflexes, please share your experiences and thoughts on the matter, so we can all better understand.

I have a small mouth and a SeaCure. It was too long for me so I cut the ends off.

I'm not the least bit concerned about an OOA having a problem using it.

I've also never seen an OOA. I have seen and even experienced a poorly set tank come off the bcd and pull the reg out of divers mouth. Of course, it was all easily handled in each situation and even the new divers, including myself at the time, took it in stride.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Worst case scenario is an out of gas diver who also has a strong gag reflex and being intolerant to your particular mouthpiece. So I would say it depends on who you dive with. If you only dive solo / with your family, why not simply give it a try and see if they have any issues with your mouthpiece? If it works, all good. If it doesn't work, you can change it before it becomes an actual OOG situation.
If you are teaching, guiding etc you are more likely to donate to somebody you don't know, so this is more of an issue then.

If the recipient has a gag reflex then they'll probably gratefully accept the octo second instead.

Much ado about nothing, me thinks.

There'll be a lot happening at once and I'm pretty sure that the recipient will not reject anything providing air in a true OOA emergency.

 

[D_Fresh]

Worst case scenario is an out of gas diver who also has a strong gag reflex and being intolerant to your particular mouthpiece. So I would say it depends on who you dive with. If you only dive solo / with your family, why not simply give it a try and see if they have any issues with your mouthpiece? If it works, all good. If it doesn't work, you can change it before it becomes an actual OOG situation.
If you are teaching, guiding etc you are more likely to donate to somebody you don't know, so this is more of an issue then.

That's a great point. I can't speak for other divers, but in my case, I seem to be more likely to donate to a diver outside of my group.

Personally, I have been involved in two separate OOA situations, both were divers outside of my group who were separated from their group... once as the donor and once assisting my buddy who donated.

 

[Zef]

There'll be a lot happening at once and I'm pretty sure that the recipient will not reject anything providing air in a true OOA emergency.

Yeah, not happening...the whole reason my octo is on a short hose under my chin is so I have a backup 2nd stage dedicated to my use. If the long hose 2nd stage is rejected for whatever reason then I expect the diver suffering the crisis will be conducting a CESA of some sort. If the OOA diver grabs my octo instead of the one in my mouth or before I have the chance to donate the long hose, I expect them to either rip the octo free or become increasingly eratic/stressed/confused, either way my response in controlling the situation will be to give them the 2nd stage on the long hose and switch my self to the oct or my pony bottle. If they go for the reg on my pony bottle, after calming them down I will detach the bottle from me and secure it to them and continue to control the situation until we attain the surface. If they successfully get the octo in their mouth that is fine, but the proximity will be such that it is uncomfortable (24inch hose) and also put me in a position to control the diver as I switch them to the long hose and begin calming the situation down.

In rescue training it is taught that the rescuer's role is not to prevent a distressed diver bolting the surface but instead to try to slow them down if that is the distressed diver's response. I have yet to experience and actual OOA situation but I have dealt with divers who panicked with water in their mask and tried to bolt to the surface...I can tell you that it is fairly futile to try to keep them underwater to calm them down if the "flight" response has kicked in...it will only increase the response and it will be nigh impossible to get them to accept a regulator shy of forcing it into their mouth...this just endangers the diver in crisis and the rescue diver...it is far better to grab their BC or fin and attempt to slow their ascent and let them go if that will cause the rescuer to begin ascending without control....one victim is always better than 2.

I would bet that the brain shuts out the micro details of things like the comfort/discomfort of a mouth piece once in crisis mode and I would not be surprised if functions like the gag reflex are naturally suppressed/inhibited as a parasympathetic response when the acute stress response (fight or flight response) is instigated by a crisis underwater such as OOA, much in the same way some organs and other systems that control bodily functions are impacted.

-Z