Misc BP/Wing questions

[GreenDiverDown]

They are easier to grab from the side , and easier to turn with the extra wings on them, easier to balance while trying the get the initial thread ( the flat top design compaired to a wingnut with just the wings sticking up ) IMO they are well worth the couple $$$ I paid for them.

Oh ya and i keep my wingnuts in my save a dive kit . Something i didnt have in there before.

Forgot one more , carrying the double and you accidently turn the bolt side twords you , they dont jab you as hard . The thread on the bolt is protected , and there is no wing sticking out to tear your skin.

OK, T... that makes sense. I can see how the thumbwheels might be easier to thread... especially when approaching them from the side while under the pocket. Thanks.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

As for failures, you are not supposed to screw the thumbwheels in 'all the way' or they will break, which someone on another forum said they experienced.

Err... I'm a habitual over-tightner (although I have recently joined the OTA)...so I guess I better stick with the SS wingnuts, huh.

 

[Scared Silly]

BTW ... The bolts that came with my Highland bands are fully threaded. So perhaps Highland decided the expense of adding threads to the shoulder bolts was no longer worth it.

The galling problem people are describing when dismantling their doubles how often do folks see this? If they are broken down once a year for a visual do folks pretty figure they are replacing nuts and/or bolts? Also is the galling with the locking nuts or with regular nuts?

As for my wing delima I found that it is really a 50lb wing so I decided to stick with it. Again thanks to everyone for their help.

 

[cool_hardware52]

BTW ... The bolts that came with my Highland bands are fully threaded. So perhaps Highland decided the expense of adding threads to the shoulder bolts was no longer worth it.

The galling problem people are describing when dismantling their doubles how often do folks see this? If they are broken down once a year for a visual do folks pretty figure they are replacing nuts and/or bolts? Also is the galling with the locking nuts or with regular nuts?

As for my wing delima I found that it is really a 50lb wing so I decided to stick with it. Again thanks to everyone for their help.

Galling is typically worse with Ny-Lok nuts. The nylon insert causes much greater friction between the threads in the nut and on the male fastener.

Before I break down a set I first make sure a regular metal hex nut can spin freely all the way down the threads, by hand. If there are any sticky spots I'll use a thread die to chase the threads.

Then I lube the threads with "blue goo" That's a anti-seize compound that I use all over my waterjet. (My waterjet runs at ~65,000 psi. All the plumbing and cuttingheads etc are stainless to stainless connections, well torqued.) I use the blue-goo alot.

If you don't have "blue-moly" or "blue-goo" handy pretty much any lube will be better than none. I've used paraffin, and even hand soap in a pinch, i.e rub the bolt on a bar of wax or soap.

Most important is the threads be in good condition, and clean. Even so you can do everything "right" and still come to grief, so I have spare all thread on hand just in case. SS All thread is cheap, and you can often find 3' lenghts at Home improvement stores.

Tobin

 

[GreenDiverDown]

BTW ... The bolts that came with my Highland bands are fully threaded. So perhaps Highland decided the expense of adding threads to the shoulder bolts was no longer worth it.

The galling problem people are describing when dismantling their doubles how often do folks see this? If they are broken down once a year for a visual do folks pretty figure they are replacing nuts and/or bolts? Also is the galling with the locking nuts or with regular nuts?

This is the bolt set that has always come with Highland bands...

If they have changed to a fully threaded bolt, then that is new. The strength of all-thread has at times been debated. Not really knowing anything about it myself, I find the pro all-thread arguements convincing and I use either... whatever is handy. I have learned that putting some blue moly on the bolts before assembling the bands saves a lot of hardship. I've never had all-thread seize (although I'm sure that it can) but I have had more than my share of trouble with the bolts that come from Highland. It seems my penchant for over-tightening gets me in trouble more often than not.

You can get Never Seez Blue Moly here...
http://www.neverseezproducts.com/bluemoly.htm

 

[cool_hardware52]

A couple pieces of bolt trivia:

All thread tends to run undersize, meaning the pitch diameter is less than on many bolts. This means a nut will be easier to spin, and less likely to gall.

Most Production Hex bolts have rolled threads, not cut threads. Rolled threads are produced by pressing the bolt between two flat plates that have straight parallel lines in them. The plates slide in opposite directions, which turns the bolt.

The net result is an "upset" thread or formed thread. Formed threads are almost always superior to "cut" threads. Better finish, higher strenght due to cold working etc.

Band manufacturers have, at least in the past taken Production rolled thread hex bolts and extended the threading up the bolt towards the head by using a threading die.

Threading dies produce "cut threads" often of low quality. This practice is also very likely to leave a stress riser where the rolled threads stop and the cut threads start.

A properly made hex bolt might be slightly stronger than All thread, but the loads on band bolts are really a very small fraction of the ultimate rated load for either.

Properly assembled band bolts see primarily tension loads. You could pick up my truck with a single 5/16 bolt.....

I use all thread because it's cheap, I can make whatever lenght bolt I want, and it's easy to chuck up in a 5/16" collet and prep the ends.


Tobin

 

[GreenDiverDown]

A couple pieces of bolt trivia...

Nice post. When I mentioned that the all-thread arguements were convincing, I was referring to several of your posts... and those from Darlene... on TDS from sometime in 03.

 

[PerroneFord]

Tobin sounds like my kind of person. I systematically changed ALL the hardware in my truck because I got tired of the piss poor hardware they used. So every project would have me buying Grade 8 hardware or SHCS for my applications. Needing only a few sizes of wrenches and a set of allen keys sure reduced my toolbox!

 

[cool_hardware52]

Nice post.

Thank you


Tobin

 

[Scared Silly]

This is the bolt set that has always come with Highland bands...

If they have changed to a fully threaded bolt, then that is new.

They must of changed because the bolt kit I got received not only had the nylock nuts but std. nuts as well. And the instructions reflected using one nut or the other. The instructions also mentioned the galling issue with the nylock nuts. They stress that if using the nylock nuts that one had better lub the bolt because of galling (and if they did gall they were not sending you a replacement set). Being my first time assembling doubles I figured I might need to take the bands apart so I used the regular nuts rather than the nylocks.

It should not be a problem for me to find the necessary tools or lubs as the mechanical engineering shop is in the basement of my office building and the machinist are great folks.