Max depth for CESA?

[Bigeclipse]

A recent tragedy got me thinking about this because it was kind of scary. I will start with a story. 2 years ago I was diving with my father and friend. I was buddied up with someone else and my father was buddied with our friend. We were doing a 100-110ft dive on a lake wreck. The lake is cold and dark at those depths (45F and flashlights are mandatory). My dive buddy and I went down first and reached the wreck, turned back and realized we were alone. We figured someone got hung up on the surface so we continued our dive. We ascended and found my dad and friend back in the boat not looking happy but both were safe. What happened was the friend diving with my father...his first stage failed killing both his primary and secondary reg. He signaled to my dad OOA. My dad donated him his primary and went for his secondary. This is where everything went wrong...the friend then panicked and started kicking towards the surface dragging my father. Of course the reg popped out of his mouth and my father was so discombobulated he then panicked. Anyways, both divers made a CESA to the surface WITHOUT regs in their mouths. Both were ok.

Here is the scary part. A few weeks back this summer, a local diver was doing the same exact dive on the same wreck. His reg failed and he went to the surface. I am not sure how fast but it sounded like he died from embolisms...he apparently had blood coming from his nose and ears...

So the question is...was my father and friend just lucky? Did the local guy end in tragedy due to coming up to fast? How far is too far for a CESA?

 

[Nirvana]

First of all, I do not think that the events you described are directly correlated to limits of CESA. In the case of your father, his friend panicked and abandoned a working gas source. Your father, based on your description, was not very familiar with his equipment and failed to retrieve his working regulators. For both of the divers, doing a CESA was the more complex and risky solution.

In the second event, apparently the diver failed to keep his airways open during ascent, leading to some of his alveoli bursting and air bubbles coming into his bloodstream. This can happen even in a swimming pool.

As to how deep can a CESA be done, several people have done (most, but not all, in practice) such an ascent from 100ft. This is not something I want to try, though.

Finally, I remeber reading that the US Navy has done submarine escape tests involving a buoyant ascent from almost 300ft.

 

[Bigeclipse]

First of all, I do not think that the events you described are directly correlated to limits of CESA. In the case of your father, his friend panicked and abandoned a working gas source. Your father, based on your description, was not very familiar with his equipment and failed to retrieve his working regulators. For both of the divers, doing a CESA was the more complex and risky solution.

In the second event, apparently the diver failed to keep his airways open during ascent, leading to some of his alveoli bursting and air bubbles coming into his bloodstream. This can happen even in a swimming pool.

As to how deep can a CESA be done, several people have done (most, but not all, in practice) such an ascent from 100ft. This is not something I want to try, though.

Finally, I remeber reading that the US Navy has done submarine escape tests involving a buoyant ascent from almost 300ft.

See that is just it...my father has 200 dives. Everytime we dive together we do OOA drills, lost regulator...etc at the end of the dive so he definitely knows his gear well. I asked him about the incident and he said he simply panicked and before he knew it...instead of sweeping for his regs (remember both his regs were now dangling because of the incident) he simply started kicking to the surface. He said it all happened in the blink of an eye and he was definitely not ready for it. That is kind of what scares me a bit because even though I know my gear well and have constantly practice these things...until something crazy happens to find out if my muscle memory will kick in...I just will not know how I will react.

 

[CuzzA]

See that is just it...my father has 200 dives. Everytime we dive together we do OOA drills, lost regulator...etc at the end of the dive so he definitely knows his gear well. I asked him about the incident and he said he simply panicked and before he knew it...instead of sweeping for his regs (remember both his regs were now dangling because of the incident) he simply started kicking to the surface. He said it all happened in the blink of an eye and he was definitely not ready for it. That is kind of what scares me a bit because even though I know my gear well and have constantly practice these things...until something crazy happens to find out if my muscle memory will kick in...I just will not know how I will react.

Your father's incident validates the case for primary donate and a necklaced alternate. IMO, the CESA is not the problem, it's the buddy and then subsequent difficulty of finding his alternate with a panicked buddy pulling him to the surface. A tough situation to be in.

I think the better question is how do we handle a panicking buddy who is trying to take us to the surface uncontrollably? A fight to control which direction we go. Deflate your BC? Swim down? A punch to the buddy's nuts?

 

[Sam Miller III]

1) George Bond USN made a free ascent from 300+ feet
2) Dick Bonin, founder of SCUBA Pro, while in USN testing regulator performance with/for Doug Fane made a free ascent from 200+ feet under the ice cap
3) LA County UW instructions association UICC (the first and most difficult civilian training program) required a free ascent from 33 feet followed by free ascent from 100 feet.
The LA County basic program required a free ascent from 30 feet
4) I have made a free ascent from "considerable depths "

Don't worry about your father..
SDM

 

[mdb]

I have made multiple free ascents-most in practice- only one in a real OOA situation with a panicked buddy.

The practice paid off, tilt your head back continue to blow bubbles, in my case, look for a clear path through
the kelp, not all that hard.

Dropping your weight belt could be an important part.

In the real deal event I had my hand on my weight belt buckle. The visibility off Point Loma, San Diego was
good and I could see the surface so I did not drop my belt. Inflated my BC once on the surface and waited for
my friend to surface.

Worked out OK, lessons learned, practicing emergency drills became a part of almost all my dives.

 

[Sam Miller III]

head titled backwards

blow and go - flair and you are there

sdm

 

[CuzzA]

I have made multiple free ascents-most in practice- only one in a real OOA situation with a panicked buddy.

The practice paid off, tilt your head back continue to blow bubbles, in my case, look for a clear path through
the kelp, not all that hard.

Dropping your weight belt could be an important part.

In the real deal event I had my hand on my weight belt buckle. The visibility off Point Loma, San Diego was
good and I could see the surface so I did not drop my belt. Inflated my BC once on the surface and waited for
my friend to surface.

Worked out OK, lessons learned, practicing emergency drills became a part of almost all my dives.

I recently read a report from a free diver that will on occasion remove his belt and hold it in his hand on the way up if something doesn't feel right about the dive. The thought process being that if he passes out, at least he would drop the belt, end up on the surface and have a better chance of being rescued.

Seems like a good idea to me and would be a good skill to develop for a CESA.

 

[WantSomeScuba?]

1) George Bond USN made a free ascent from 300+ feet
2) Dick Bonin, founder of SCUBA Pro, while in USN testing regulator performance with/for Doug Fane made a free ascent from 200+ feet under the ice cap
3) LA County UW instructions association UICC (the first and most difficult civilian training program) required a free ascent from 33 feet followed by free ascent from 100 feet.
The LA County basic program required a free ascent from 30 feet
4) I have made a free ascent from "considerable depths "

Don't worry about your father..
SDM

Brett Gilliam did one from over 325 feet while watching his dive buddy get torn apart by sharks.

 

[BoltSnap]

My dad donated him his primary and went for his secondary.

Why donate the primary? What was his regulator configuration?