Master Diver - PADI & NAUI

[rico68]

I read through all the archives, but I didn't see any really addressing the Master certification. Plenty around OW (it's the instructor!) and the Dive Master programs, but not so much the Master Diver.

I'm certified PADI OW (1989) and AOW (1991). I'm looking at the Master Diver certification and I'm debating with myself between PADI & NAUI for this level.

I'm not debating between the agencies themselves, but rather the model they use for the Master Diver rating.

Cost - add up the 5 PADI specialties, Rescue and EFR it comes up to $900 +/-. NAUI is a $300 class.
Dive Experience - It would seem you get more bottom time experience via the specialties with the PADI.
Advanced knowledge/academic - It appears NAUI has a deeper academic component.

Some of the questions running through my head...
Would I ever be "limited" by not taking full specialty courses along the way? Rejected by dive trip operators, etc?
Are you better served by more bottom time/real diving experience than the advanced academic knowledge? Or vice-versa?
Does the advanced academics make you a better "master diver"/more well rounded than a diver who has accumulated 5 specialties?

I want the advanced training. This really isn't a PADI vs NAUI debate but a question I have regarding course structure. I know they're somewhat apples & oranges. I'm looking for feedback, pro's, con's and opinions on deciding between the two.

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Rick

 

[wylerbear]

It will depend on what you really want and of course, on the instructor(s). I'm a PADI Master Diver (and a Divemaster) and I enjoyed every one of the classes and gained a lot of knowledge along the way. However, one of my specialties (UW Naturalist) was kind of a joke due to the fact that the instructor gave me no instruction whatsoever. He basically told me to go dive and look at plants as I dove. I had to get what I could out of studying on my own. What a waste of time and money (except of course I was diving so I didn't care). My other classes were very informative and well worth it. But after the Naturalist experience I learned to ask for the entire class. I want the classroom portion and insist on it. I don't want an instructor who for example teaches the Boat Diver specialty by saying "Here's the boat, remember how to do a giant stride?, go dive." For my Boat Diver, I sat through a 4 hour classroom presentation and learned a lot. Same with the other specialties. I don't know a lot about the NAUI presentations but I know the PADI specialties, if done right, are very thorough.
As to academics vs. real life diving, I think both are valuable in your training and you get out of them what you put into them. And what you can glean from a good instructor.

 

[DiveMaven]

I believe that like any dive training, the agency doesn't ultimately matter, it's the instructor. Find a great instructor and stick with him/her through all the specialties. Personally, I'd rather spend twice as much with a great instructor than save money with a crappy one.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Rick,
As Georgia said it all depends on the instructor and how thoroughly they go into each specialty. I'm PADI master and currently DM candidate. My specialties for my master cert were nitrox, drysuit, deep, uw nav, and equip specialist. I got all the academic work and then some in addition to the acual dives. My instructor has been demonstrated by many posts on this board to be the one of the exceptions as far as thoroughness. My nitrox course involved all the standard stuff but in addition he thru in letting me watch the actual blending and went over the blending tables with me. I'm not allowed to blend obviously but I know what's going on and know the percentages required for my mixes. The drysuit course requires one confined and 2 ow dives. I had two pool sessions and even tho I had 11 drysuit dives before the course he still did 3 dives instructing me as to it's use but then an additional 3 as part of the actual course dives before he issued my card. I was not allowed to wear my gaiters or ankle weights for the course. Deep was as required with the addition of actually calculating a deco stop should something have gone wrong. The deep buoyancy and nav were done at 70-80 ft in 4-6 ft vis with a slight current and dark as night. uw nav wwas just as thorough with the addition of being required to do mapping. This was used as part of my mapping exercise for dm. Came in real handy. The equip spec was my choice as I knew I was going for dm and it seemed like a logical choice. It followed the outline but I also got to assist with vis inspections of tanks, serviced and rebuilt one of my regs under his direct supervision, am getting factory cert in spring, took apart my bc and cleaned and reinstalled my dumps, dissassembled, serviced and reassembled my lights, and did same to his photo gear. Now I think I got my money's worth. It's also resulted in me being manager at the shop. Now I believe that some of the courses for master diver are a little on the fluff side. My feeling is that uw photo is cool but peak buoyancy would be better. uw naturalist if taught like Georgia's go look at plants example would be a total waste. Get what you pay for and choose your specialties carefully. do what will you feel will help you the most in the type of diving you plan to do. I'm planning on ice this year just to get the experience and the fact I live in the north. I also want to do wreck and at some point I'll be going for extended range, adv nitrox, trimix and deco. That is the direction I feel my diving will take me along with persuing an instructor rating.

 

[MB]

I'm not debating between the agencies themselves, but rather the model they use for the Master Diver rating.

There are fundamental differences in the approach taken for this course. Others have described the model based on the collection of specialties. By contrast, the NAUI model uses the master diver course as the basis for advanced academic knowledge -- i.e., instructor level knowledge -- about the science and art of diving. It requires a minimum of 8 dives, taken during the course, used to apply that knowledge. While there are always instructor differences across all courses, this is one course where the agency differences are distinct and reflect very different approaches and philosophies about diver education.

 

[WaterDawg]

Here are some links I found that may help. Good luck! And congrats on your decision to take further training.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=113724&highlight=master

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=109279&highlight=master

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=105378&highlight=master+scuba+naui

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=104788&highlight=master+scuba+naui

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=22827&highlight=master+scuba+naui

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=863 27&highlight=master+scuba+naui

 

[scubapolly]

Both agencies Master diver have pros and cons.
The PADI plan allows you to design your course to meet your needs (ie you live in Hawaii, you might not get much benefit out of the drysuit specialty and if you are going to do your OW dives in a rock quarry, the naturalist course might be a joke). However the courses are somewhat disjointed, and you are likely to have gaps and overlaps..... one instructor thinks you learned that in one speciality so leaves it out of the other.
If you can find a terriffic instructor with a wide range of knowledge the NAUI course is fantastic. The education is jointed, and the academics can be based off of each other to build on your knowledge. Some dive shops actually set up the course so that they have several instructors teaching the various sections of the course based on what their individual expertise is.
Bottom line is like all of the other courses, you need to do what is best for you in your situation. Look at the dive shops in you area and decide which one best fits your individual needs. Also look at why you want to get the Master Diver Rating. Are you doing it because you want to become an instructor yourself? If so, you should consider which agency you want to teach for. Are you someone who travels often? Maybe the PADI set up would be best for you. Take a Dry suit course locally, go to the Great Lakes for a Wreck specialty, the Bahamas for an underwater naturalist, and the Keys for an Underwater hunter, Bonaire for a photography course. IS there a local instructor NAUI instructor that has the experience to teach an entire master course, or is their a shop that offers a multi instructor class.
As with just about everything in diving there isn't a blanket answer that is the best solution for everyone.
Polly

 

[archman]

To be short and sweet...

NAUI Master Diver is significantly more involved than the PADI version. NAUI Master Diver is closer educationally to PADI Divemaster. The PADI course has more flexibility as to what you learn, while NAUI teaches at a much higher minimum standard.

 

[Diesel298]

Like it has been said before. it realy depends on what you want out of it.
i personally saw the "master diver" cert (and i mean no disrespect to those who have done it it does bring a component of avvanced education to there diving)
but i always saw it as a merrit badge cert. somone who just wants a title
i found the divemaster route much more usefull. bringing all skills to demonstration quality and with all the experence you get during the DM class you will get alot of the diving that the master diver rating provides.....
but in any case its all based on what you want for training
and either are better than nothing at all..
good luck
Ray

 

[rico68]

Thanks for all your feedback so far.

The only NAUI program here is at a dive shop about 40 miles from my home, but the instructor seems very qualified. His program includes 16 hours of classroom, a "rigorous exam that will definitely require study," and 9 dives over three weekends including local lakes (nav & search), quarry (deep, air consumption, advanced planning, simulated deco), Mississippi River (task loading, tethered diving), and Lake Superior (wreck, mapping, lift bags & salvage).

There are probably 5 or 6 PADI stores between me and the NAUI shop all offering specialty courses. I'm sure I could find a solid instructor in that selection. Plus the advantage of being close to home.

To be short and sweet...

NAUI Master Diver is closer educationally to PADI Divemaster. The PADI course has more flexibility as to what you learn.

I guess this is one aspect that had me leaning towards the NAUI program. I can be a bit of an academic and curious mind to begin with. But beyond that, when I went through the list of specialities for the PADI program I found myself picking some just as "filler" to get to five. And I really didn't want to put together a Master Diver certification like Diesel mentioned, a "merit badge" program. I can see how someone could put together a pretty "soft" PADI Master Diver curriculum, or conversely a pretty challenging one.

One other question....
Deep dives and wreck dives are included in the NAUI program (as taught at the LDS here), but a deep specialty and wreck specialty would be part of the PADI Master program. Would I every be limited or excluded from dive charters for carrying a NAUI Master Diver certification and not carrying a deep or wreck "specialty certification?"

Thanks again. Your feedback has been very helpful.

Rick