Making the transition

[_Ralph]

Next week I start with my RB training (Sidekick).


What should I expect when I finish, and look at all those doubles (half dozen sets), another dozen stages and deco bottles in the shed? How much should I keep for RB use? (51m/normoxic mixes)

I don't have the space for a booster at the moment.

I'm likely going to keep 2 sets for OC use (32% & trimix)


_R

 

[tbone1004]

so here's some food for thought

First off, all the deco bottles really have to stay since you still need them for bailout.
The stages you'll likely end up converting to bailout in different mixes so you don't have to drain anything depending on the depth.
The doubles you'll want to keep for OC use as you said.

So, the question I have is if you're an established doubles diver, why did you choose the sidekick?
Since you chose the sidekick, have you considered using it like a stage bottle and using your doubles as dil/out?

 

[_Ralph]

Thanks tbone,

A few reasons,
- I didn't care for the clutter of counterlungs (chest and shoulder varieties) of units I've tried in the past (MEG, Prism)
- Tank logistics .. I mainly dive remotely and for a casual trip, carry 2 sets of doubles and 2 stages to stay in the water everyday, while one set is being filled at an advancing glaciers pace. Taking 2-3 3L O2 bottles and a stage cuts down significantly on size and weight for a long weekends dive trip, same with dive operators, grabbing an AL80 and a O2 bottle.
- Streamlined of side mount while filming ... spent a few weeks this spring in the Caribbean on SM and quite enjoyed it (aside from some sporty shore entries with the bottles ... minor annoyances) over back mount.


_R

 

[rjack321]

I have not gotten rid of any cylinders, but cave diving sucks up the BO

 

[Gareth J]

From my limited perspective. Before I switched to CCR I had

1 x set twin 12's (My primary Set)
1 x single 12 litre (Instruction)
1 x 3 litre pony
2 x 7 litre stages.

All of the above where steel.

Since being on CCR.
2 x 3 litres (part of the CCR)
1 x 3 litre out of test, not used.
1 x single 12 litre (Instructing)
2 x Ali 80's (bailout)

I kept the twin 12's as a decanting bank, but I've actually ended up lending these to a friend for the last few years. He keeps them in test and in use.

Aluminium cylinders are much better stages, and significantly better if you are on CCR.

I always carry an Ali 80 for bailout as a minimum. I was once asked if I find it inconvenient, the true answer is that I don't really notice it (other physically carting it to and from the water).
In theory, you never use the gas in the bailout cylinder. I do practice bailout exercises occasionally. It does mean that often the cylinders are technically out of test. (Having my own compressor means I can actually fill them out of test anyway).

How many cylinders you have is a product of ease of filling, and the type of diving you are doing. It is easy for me to get cylinders filled. I also haven't been doing any dep mix diving over the last couple of years.
I did have an issue with availability of O2 at a location we went to earlier in the year. I was going to fill one of the 80's with O2 and decant, as it happens I was able to borrow a couple of extra 3 litre cylinders, this solved the problem much more efficiently.
The problem with a lot of cylinders is keeping them all in test (and the related cost).

I originally thought I would use my twinset of OC diving, this hasn't happened. The truth is that I enjoy using the CCR far more, so only ever dive OC either on holiday, or if I am instruction new divers.
In the early days, I did switch back on forth, OC for deep dives, CC for shallower dives. Once I had built up my experience on the unit I only use the CCR.

Gareth

 

[DA Aquamaster]

When Marci and I switched to CCR (also Sidekicks) a few years ago we each had:
- two sets of back mount doubles
- a set of LP 85 side mount doubles
- a set of steel 72 side mount doubles
- a set of LP 45 side mount doubles
- two AL72 stages
- three AL 80 stages
- an AL30, and
- anAL 6 and an AL 13 as dry suit inflation bottle.
(plus three more AL 80s out on loan)

After our CCR conversion we each have:

- a pair of LP 85s for our dil/out bottle (with a spare), and on occasion, side mount doubles
- a pair of steel 72s for side mount doubles
- a set of LP 45 for open water CCR dil/out and for really small passage side mount doubles
- two AL72 stages for CCR bailout (I prefer them over the AL80s)
- an AL 80 stage for CCR bailout
- two O2 clean AL 80s with O2 (for cascade filling our small O2 bottles on trips)
- an AL30 for O2 bailout
- three AL13s for O2 CCR bottles.
(and three more AL 80s still out on loan)

We initially kept the back mount doubles for offshore wreck dives, but we eventually sold them all. We don't do deep offshore dives much and if we do we'll use the side mount rebreather in one of two ways.

When we went to CCR, we bought a pair of Faber 15s to start with for O2 bottles, but I found I preferred the AL13s, so we bought four more (a total of three AL13s each).

The net change in tanks then came down to getting rid of the LP 95s and buying some AL 13s. I could probably sell off the steel 72s, but I really like steel 72s and I still use them for dil/out on OW CCR dives.

Our CCR versus OC patterns are similar to Gareth's. We'll dive OC on pretty fish dives, and I'll dive OC if I am working with a new OC diver. Other wise, I just prefer OC, and the added cost is minimal over the long term.
----

On large passage dives, I'll carry an AL 72 stage for redundant diluent and additional bailout. However, all our bailout stages are also configured with a QD fitting on the second stage so they can be used as redundant diluent. We also have QDs on the second stages on our LP 85 dil/out bottles with a 5' hose so that we can also use that to share diluent if needed.

On small, tight passage portions of dives where taking an AL 72 or AL 80 stage isn't a viable option, I'll carry a smaller redundant diluent bottle - as small as an AL6 in shallow systems with little or no depth change and no need to descend to exit. Some folks absolutely lose their **** at the idea of using an AL 6, but it's just redundant dil not redundant everything, and within the above parameters it's more than enough for an exit. An AL19, and AL 30 or and AL 40 all work well when progressively more redundant diluent may be needed, and if you're diving a deep system, you're going to have one or more stages with you anyway for additional bailout, so the redundant dil is covered.

For offshore dives with no deco obligation, a LP 45, LP 46 or LP 50 works really well as it smaller and lighter than an LP 85, AL 80 or AL 72, and makes it easier to navigate exit gates and boat ladders while it still provides more than enough bailout gas. For deep offshore dives, I kept my old Nomad and with a set of stabilizing plates and bands it works well to carry a pair of back mounted tanks for bailout. With a pair of back mounted AL 80s, you have 154 cf of bailout gas with room for bailout O2 staged on the left side, with the Sidekick on the right. You end up being no worse off coming aboard a boat than an OC diver doing a 4 bottle dive.

----

In practice we'll drop a stage about every 800' in 100' deep cave and about every 1100' in 60' deep cave. The good news is that you never use them, and you can take them in a system and then leave them in place, or on some cases reposition them slightly but still leave them in the system until you are done diving there. Consequently, you need fewer stages than OC, even when doing larger dives. Where more stages come in handy is when you are doing trimix dives where you will be using different mixes. Since you never actually use them unless you have an emergency your fill costs are pretty much a one time deal.

With a pair of LP 85s we can keep one ready to go with trimix diluent, and then only have to top it off with 600 psi or so after 2-3 dives.

---

I don't know that we carry all that much less weight or bulk on a CCR trip compared to an OC trip, once you consider sorb, spares and associated CCR support stuff. We also don't like paying minimum fill rates to top off an AL 13 with 6 or 7 cu ft of O2, so we will bring a pair of O2 filled AL80s and a transfill whip. We could save weight and bulk, but we're cheap, and it's nice to be self sufficient. Before we had a booster we'd also fill the AL 80s before heading home to provide O2 at home since the local shop didn't have a booster either. One shop in N FL didn't like filling our AL 80s (time needed to boost, etc) but we just used another shop for that.

We do carry sorb in kitty liter jugs. The large size will cover three fills and 15-18 hours of diving, and a pair of those is more convenient on a 3 day trip for the two of us than a 44 pound keg of sorb.

 

[_Ralph]

Thanks so far for the posts, most enlightening.

I will clarify, although the Sidekick instantly screams caves, i'm just a lowly bubble blower with caves (not enough time off nor proximity to them ... although I'll be down in cave country next week). Just really enjoyed diving the unit compared to others.


Primarily I do fish dives, ocean and lakes (mostly cold water .. anything above 10C is warm water in my books and the Caribbean is a hot tub). Thoroughly enjoy deep innards of wrecks as well.

_R

 

[tbone1004]

@_Ralph
so my followup.
I started with a Meg and it is in a rack. LP50's for dil/bailout, FX23 *3l* for O2, and one for suit/wing inflation. This is a fully self contained system that weighs as much as a set of LP104's cave filled. I dove it off the coast of NC in 4ft swells with a 3-4sec interval and had no issues getting up the ladder because it was all self-contained. No bottles to hand off etc, it was brilliant.

I have just bought what is essentially a sidekick. I have two maybe three plans for this.
Option 1 is preferred and will be my "normal" use with it. Normal sidemount CCR as it was intended. I will have a 3l strapped onto it for O2 until I can get a sphere+holder *unlike @DA Aquamaster and his wife, I'm tall enough that it doesn't matter *, and for sidemount cave diving when I can get a sphere, the 3l will become dil. Sidemount on the other side.
Option 2 will be for "reserve" configuration. Will use a normal set of doubles on my back for dil/bailout, and have the sidekick on the left as a stage. Will be nice if I need/want to dive doubles for whatever reason, but could just as easily use it with a single tank for pretty fishy diving. Let's the OC stuff be "normal" except for an extra hose with the QC6 on it, and for me that is a lot easier than dealing with full sidemount when on a boat.
Option 3 is something I will experiment with next year and that will be using the sidekick with a different loop on it for backmount. Put it in the rack like the meg and if it breathes well, then I'll stop using the Meg. Keep the second set of loop hoses ready to go and not have to deal with counterlungs.

For you, I think if you're set up for doubles already and comfortable diving it, when you would normally dive backmount, I'd just as soon use the sidekick like a stage unless you really want to go full sidemount

 

[rjack321]

@_Ralph you are a cave diver? I'm curious why you wouldn't use the sidekick in caves?

While there was a learning curve on my Meg (my first ccr) for caves, I really enjoy cave diving on CCR compared to OC. It can be a tinsy bit more challenging but for me that is part of why I enjoy it. That learning curve was radically easier on my kiss sidewinder which is totally dreamy to dive - at least in my current <100ft mode which uses one of the BOs for drysuit gas. Putting a suit bottle on it is a bit of a pain.

 

[_Ralph]

@rjack321 I'd be lucky to get to caves once a year, I only have Intro so far because of that (Would like to go full cave, but I don't feel like it would be worth my time at this moment as I'm quite fine doing a few 1/6ths ~70min dives once a year ... although, would love to see whats around the next corner/restriction )

_R