Making the first purchase

[jakemorrill]

The wife and I are getting ready to make our first purchases into this new hobby. The christmas bonus this year is going to pay for a kit for both of us. We recently completed our OW cert, and have had a blast diving together and with friends here on the island. We are looking for setups that we can grow into. We will probably shoot for our AOW next month, then specialties as we get time/babysitters.

She has narrowed in on Scubapro equipment, while the majority of the kit that I like has been Mares. I am looking for suggestions on what will be a good growing reg setup. We are very much tropical right now, but would like to be able to also use it for colder water dives when we have to go back and visit her folks. We are thinking of getting EANx certified so that would be a concern as well.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. The best local service are SP, Mares and Aqualung.

v/r

 

[tbone1004]

I'm an Aqualung fan, they are easy to service, and they are everywhere. Scubapro is great too, just not my cup of tea. It is my bosses preference though, and he's been a course director and technical instructor for 40 years.

All modern regs will be fine for nitrox use *all might be an overstatement, but I am not aware of any that don't come nitrox eligible*. The titanium ones shouldn't be used on pure O2, or anything above 40% for that matter. I don't own any, nor will I, but that's no reason to discourage use.

Most regs are also just fine in cold water. I've used Apeks TX40 setups which say to be used in temps above 10C/50F, and used them down to about 5C/40F and have had no problems. I wouldn't recommend making a habit out of it, but I've done it. Most of the cold problems are actually at the surface, not underwater. 40F water is COLD btw, and very few people are comfortable diving in it.

I'd suggest getting a used set of regs up front and then if you want to buy new later go ahead and do that. Getting matching sets isn't as important at this stage of the game, as long as the general concept is similar. One of you having an Air2 and the other having 2 second stages is not a great idea.
Here's a couple great used regs
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/classifieds-regulators/401900-apeks-xtx200-1st-din-2nd-stage-w-suunto-analog-double-guage-lpo-compass-more.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/classifieds-regulators/399969-scubapro-mk25-s600-regulator-system-w-aladin-2g-console-octopus.html

one is apeks, the other scubapro. You'll almost always pay more for SP. Mares is hard to find, harder to service. Piston vs. diaphragm doesn't really matter for you at this point, they all work equally well for the types of diving you're looking at, but if you can get a full reg set for that $400-$600 range, then you can put that extra money towards a good BP/W or BC.

 

[Colliam7]

We are looking for setups that we can grow into. . . . She has narrowed in on Scubapro equipment, while the majority of the kit that I like has been Mares. . . . We are very much tropical right now, but would like to be able to also use it for colder water dives when we have to go back and visit her folks. . . . The best local service are SP, Mares and Aqualung.

I will echo several of saxplayer's comments. While all three brands are good, I find Mares parts a little hard to come by at times, and could not recommend Mares on that basis alone, although I dive a (used) Mares MR12 as one of my regs and am happy with it, except when service takes a long time. I personally prefer Aqualung / Apeks, regs, but the SP line is great as well. In my experience SP is a little pricier, new or used. Most regs are readily compatible with (up to) 40% EANx, so that shouldn't be an issue, irrespective of brand model.

In buying, look at good 'mid level' regs, that are cold-water compatible (most will be) but without a lot of bells and whistles (sometimes referred to by manufacturers as, 'innovative features'). You really don't need turret regs, for example, you don't need 'very small' first stages that are somewhat more difficult to service. The majority of regs sold today in the Western hemisphere are diaphragm regs, but a piston reg like the SP Mk 2 is about as bullet-proof and simple as you can get. Among diaphragm regs, an Apeks TX40 or 50 is also a great starting point.

Although a number of new divers may (understandably) not be altogether comfortable with used equipment as a first purchase, I recommend that as a starting point. Regs are generally fairly durable, and if good local service (and parts) are available, used regs are a cost-effective way to begin, and you can grow with them in the sense that you can dive a good reg for many years and many dives, as you develop. Many divers find that something they buy as a first purchase ends up being something they grow out of / away from. Regs are sometimes an excpetion to that, because they are so durable - I still dive my first Zeagle 50D, that I bought 10 years ago, as my primary single tank reg. While a variety of used equipment may not be readily available locally, eBay is there.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

All of the above is excellent advice.

The only thing I'll add is that, if you're considering purchasing a used reg setup, it makes a lot of sense to get the reg checked out by a competent reg tech so that you can figure out if the reg is dive-able as is, requires a complete overhaul/rebuild, just needs a tuning, needs certain parts replaced (parts not usually included in an overhaul kit), or is so messed up that repair is not cost-effective.
A simple tuning should be relatively cheap.
The cost of parts can vary considerably depending on which part requires replacement.
A complete overhaul/rebuild consists of: reg disassembly, removal of pressure seats and o-rings, cleaning of all metal and plastic parts, installation of new pressure seats and lubricated o-rings, reg assembly, and then functional testing + tuning. Labor costs alone for a typical reg setup (one 1st stage + two 2nd stages) can be approx. $50-$125. The price for overhaul kits can vary widely (some 1st stage kits can cost $35 each; some 2nd stage kits cost $20 each). You can see how costs can quickly add up.

The other thing to consider about a "used" reg setup is that it won't come with any kind of warranty from the manufacturer. This may or may not be important to you.

Basically, the take-home message is that with a used reg you need to figure out how much it will cost to make the reg dive-able. Then compare that to the price of a comparable brand new reg setup that comes with a warranty and may come with a free-overhaul-parts-for-life (which remains in effect so long as you service the reg at the manufacturer-specified intervals -- annually or every other year).

Used regs can present a great value if you do your homework on them. If you fail to get them checked out beforehand, you might get lucky or you might get stuck with a lemon.

Hope this helps...

 

[halocline]

How's life in Cuba? I would love to visit there sometime, hopefully it will be possible in my lifetime. A good scubapro set up that's reasonably priced would be the MK11/S550. Unless you're moving to a cold climate, where you'll be diving in a drysuit, you don't need a sealed reg. If at some point you do start diving dry, the sticker shock from the suit will make buying a new reg seem like just an expensive lunch.

I would not overlook the used market. Great choices would be the first stages MK10, 15, or 20 (or 25, but that's more money usually) and the 2nd stages G250, G200B, balanced adjustable, or D300/350/400. In all of those cases you need to have a friend or trusted regulator tech that knows how to rebuild the particular reg you buy, and access to parts. Of the used regs I mentioned, there might be some parts-availability problems with the D series in the future; not rebuild kits, but other parts that occasionally wear out.

If money is not really too much a concern, the MK17/G250V is probably the best overall new package from scubapro. There's the A700 which is a fancy new metal case reg, but the G250 is one of the most successful 2nd stage designs in history, with decades of proven reliability and performance. It's a common assumption that SP re-issued the G250 (as G250V) because the original G250s had such a high resale value, despite newer and more complicated 2nd stages being available.