Luxfer Aluminum 80

[East Bay Diver]

This weekend my dive buddy tried to get two of his Luxfer tanks filled (current vip and hydo). Sports Chalet will no longer fill Luxfer tank that are pre 1989. They say this is because of the alloy used which is 6351-T6, instead of 6061-T6. I live in California where we have a few Sports Chalet stores, I am sure this change in policy is due to insurance reasons.

I was looking a buying some used scuba cylinders recently. I look at some Luxfer tanks that where pre 1989 and decided that I was not willing to pay good money for what I think is a bad alloy. So in my research I call Luxfer, I ask if the pre 1989 cylinder are safe and they said yes they are safe. But what else are they going to say.

 

[HowardE]

This has been posted several times on the board here... Do a search for luxfer fill, and you'll get about 37 results... Here's a few from the top

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=112699&highlight=luxfer+fills

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=107525&highlight=luxfer+fills

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The tanks are safe as long as they are inspected as required by luxfer. This bascially means getting a visual plus inspection along with the VIP each year.

Our local hydro test facility finds lots of tanks with incipient cracks each year (mostly on medical O2 tanks). They have also found several with much more serious but still not lethal cracks on tansk that have not been inspected at al in a few years (all of them being tanks from fire departments). The combination of two has convinced me that the test protocals work to find sustained load cracks and will ensure the tank is condemned long before the tqank is a threat, but it underscore the importance of getting the tank properly inspected every year.

The total number of 6351 tanks (scuba or otherwise) that have exploded is very small in total, especially when you consider how many were made, and none have exploded since the current test protocols were put in place.

But none the less many shops refuse to fill them on the grounds that they present an elevated risk. They don't, but shops will argue it is their butt on the line during the fill - and besides, they also sell new tanks.

 

[roakey]

What the dive shops don't realize is that by doing this they're digging their own self-regulation grave.

By refusing to do fills an perfectly good cylinders they're saying that "we don't trust our cylinder inspectors", or worse "we don't trust the other shop's cylinder inspectors."

In either case it's tacit admission that "self regulation" isn't working and it'll be used against them in the long run.

Of course, self regulation isn't working, because very few of the people doing cylinder inspections are PSI (or any other agency) certified. So you end up with shops not filling cylinders because they're scared to due to the poor inspections that are being done and sooner or later, given this data, the government will probably step in and they'll have no one but themselves to blame.

Roak

 

[royalediver]

The DOT, who certain member of the board say is "overly cautious" says they're safe.

What the dive industry is saying is we're incompentent and cannot inspect a tank to any degree of safety. What a sorry state for the industry to be in!

 

[dannobee]

This weekend my dive buddy tried to get two of his Luxfer tanks filled (current vip and hydo). Sports Chalet will no longer fill Luxfer tank that are pre 1989. They say this is because of the alloy used which is 6351-T6, instead of 6061-T6. I live in California where we have a few Sports Chalet stores, I am sure this change in policy is due to insurance reasons.

Yes, sport chalet just stopped filling the older Luxfer's and Walter Kidde's. I believe this is chain wide, IIRC. Katherine (in the Pleasanton store) asked me if mine were affected (I have a couple of Luxfer's that she fills, but their original hydros are '93), so fortunately mine aren't.

They do sell new Catalina S80 tanks for $99 a few times per year, so keep an eye out.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The DOT, who certain member of the board say is "overly cautious" says they're safe.

Well...they say that the DOT is overly cautious when they want to massively overfill their steel tanks, but then claim the opposite when they want to express their opinion that 6351-T6 AL tanks are explosions waiting to happen. Some shop owners are guilty of the same double standard.

Unfortunately what has happened in the past and will probably happen in the future is that sloppy/careless/negligent shops have filled out-of-hydro and not recently VIP'd (let alone visual plus inspected) 6351-T6 AL 80's that have then exploded due to the presence of a sustained load crack that would have been detected had current inspection procedures been followed. The tendency has then been to blame the alloy rather than fully considering the negligence involved in filling a tank that was neither legal to fill (due to the lack of a hydro) nor met industry standards required prior to a fill (ie: a VIP, and visual plus inspection where appropirate, in the last 12 months).

Then of course insurance companies and lawyers who want to limit liability claims (and who fully realize that they cannot control the fact that their insured parties and clients are often not the sharpest tools in the shed) restrict their coverage of 6351-T6 tanks or recommend that their clients not fill them as a means to hopefully prevent an accident when the shop fails to follow standard industry practices.

Roakey is absolutely right about where this will eventually lead. Someday, we will no doubt have to send each of our tanks (all aluminum tanks and steel tanks, not just 6351 alloy tanks) to a federally licensed inspection facility to ensure they receive a proper VIP each year. But of course that's ok from the shop perspective as the dive shops will send them in for us and no doubt mark up the cost 100% for offering the "service". Much like they do now when they place a surcharge on the cost of your hydro and then add insult to injury by charging you for a totally redundant and unneccesary repeat VIP where they stick their VIP sticker on the tank. As long as it's a revenue source for the shop, they are not going to get too concerned about additional customer expense or inconvenience.

 

[rmannix]

I purchased this Luxfer 80 new in 1982, a crack in the threads was discovered on a VIP in 1992. The store I bought it from (and taught for) was already out of business.
Back then I was diving a lot but not keeping up with news. No magazines and no internet. No offer was made by the store that did the VIP other than to sell me a new one, and wasn't receptive to selling me one without a valve until I said "OK, I'll go to Tom's instead".
So one day I got a wild hair and a dull hacksaw. 3 hours later I got the bottom foot or so off, sanded, painted, drilled and installed a lamp kit. My wife hates it.
Just wait until I retire my old 63's or 50's...

 

[PADI Knight]

Hey, that's as good as the leg lamp in that holiday classic "A Christmas Story" or more commenly known as the "Red Rider BB Gun- You'll Shoot Your Eye Out Kid" movie.

 

[dpbishop]

I have been told that not all Luxfer tanks made prior to 1989 used 63512-T6, only ones that have an exemption number stamped into them ( E-XXXX next to the DOT stamp) Diving Locker in San Diego is filling my Non-exempt luxfer, but most of the other shops won't. It seems the whole LDS industry dropped the ball on this. Luxfer had a trade in deal for a couple of years but it was never brought to my attention when I had tanks filled.