Low on air or safety stop

[khacken]

I had a great time doing my first real dives in Playa. However, my buddy and I had a disagreement on our last dive of the trip. My buddy and I happen to have had the exact same air consumption on all of our check dives and the three prior dives during our trip (don't ask me how, I guess it is because we stick so close and have the same body build and number of dives).

On our last dive, we did a 45 foot drift dive for one hour. I actually made the call to ascend before him at 700 psi, so I thought everything was great at the safety stop. Although it was strange that for once I had used less than him. But I didn't question it as he gave the 700 sign as we ascended (fist to the head, that is a new sign I never learned in OW certification!). Then, a minute into the safety stop at 15ft after a 15ft/sec ascent he gives me a 200 psi sign. I look at my gauge and I am at 500. I give him the thumbs up in a manner meaning ascend NOW. However, he just stays there and only goes up when I start to ascend without him. I had the octo out and ready to give to him, but he surfaced with 100 psi and never went OOA. Once on board I have some words with him before the others surface. He is mad that we didn't do the full safety stop and I am mad that he almost went OOA. He says that he knew he would not go OOA and going OOA at that depth is not a problem because I had the octo out and he could always do an ESA if I screwed up, and that the safety stop was more important.

So, who was right? I realize that I am partly to blame by not checking his pressure when we got to the stop. Also, how did he use up so much air on the acsent? All I can think is that he misread his gauge when he signaled 700 or was overweighted and was finning too much on the ascent.

 

[PfcAJ]

I think that getting upset or mad over might be taking it to far.

In my opinion, both of you goofed up a little. Its important to know your gas supply and your buddy's gas supply, because if the crap hits the fan, you are relying on him to help you get to the surface safely, and vice versa. ESA's are not fun at any depth.

Always maintain enough gas to complete your saftey stop.

Next time, work on your communication and standardized hand signals in your pre-dive plan. I've never heard of fist on head meaning 700psi. To me thats an "OK" on the surface.

Also, read up on rock bottom gas planning. A search for that will yield plenty of results. This will help prevent times like you just discribed.

 

[khacken]

Yeah, the big lesson I learned is to check the buddy's air supply at safety stop. I was surprised at that fist to the head meaing 700 psi as well. the other strange one was a "T" sign at 1500psi. But that is what the DM wanted, so that is what I gave him. Also, I wasn't really all that mad at him, I guess that came out wrong hehe.

 

[Cacia]

If you had 500 and he had 200, this would have been a great opportunity to practice an air share. You have the time....you have the air...and it's more fun than twiddling your thumbs. Another thing we like to do is play with our surface markers, shooting them and doing yo-yo tricks with the reels. I guess I side with him, although he should realize you were just concerned for him. This is the fun part...having the discussion and tweaking your routine together. After every dive, get in the habit of having a light hearted discussion about the choices and options.
Next time, he could make his stop a wee bit earlier.

Of course once he was at 100 psi at 15 ft --time to come up or you risk having to hydro the tank.

 

[khacken]

Hmmm, I will mention that to him about the hydro hahah.

 

[Cacia]

thanks. You will have people that agree with you, that 200 is time to surface period. But, at 15 ft, I don't see the harm with using 100 more psi by putting him on your tank. It's great practice, hovering together. You will find if you do this from time to time, that if you ever need to do it in more of an emergency or even stressful situation, then you will feel really dialed in and confident. Another thing for your buddy and you to give some thought to, is to not fall into a competing, adversarial relationship. I had a buddy once that he and I argued and were always trying to "be right" with each other. If this is someone you will be diving with often, it is constructive to suggest "hey, how about after every dive we debrief and consider various options?" This way, it is expected post dive to discuss things and you get very used to learning from each other's viewpoint. What is even better, is these are the buddies who eventually, you can read each other's minds because you have talked about all the various decisions. It sounds like you are on that track!

 

[bradshsi]

On our last dive, we did a 45 foot drift dive for one hour. I actually made the call to ascend before him at 700 psi, so I thought everything was great at the safety stop.

IMO there are a number of things to be concerned about here:

1) 200 psi isn't really enough given the possibility that your buddies gauge might not be accurate. That's why surfacing with 500 psi is a good idea. SPG's can and do show the wrong pressure.

2) Turning a 45' dive at even 700 psi is too low a pressure. Rock bottom for an AL80 @ 45' would be about 850 psi by my reckoning. Ask yourself how much air would you need to ascend safely if your buddy had an OOA emergency at that depth ?


My feeling is that your buddy is much more at fault than you. If he only had 200 psi at the safety stop he likely had less than 500psi when you turned the dive. That's bad gas management whatever way you look at it.

 

[gcbryan]

thanks. You will have people that agree with you, that 200 is time to surface period. But, at 15 ft, I don't see the harm with using 100 more psi by putting him on your tank. It's great practice, hovering together. You will find if you do this from time to time, that if you ever need to do it in more of an emergency or even stressful situation, then you will feel really dialed in and confident. Another thing for your buddy and you to give some thought to, is to not fall into a competing, adversarial relationship. I had a buddy once that he and I argued and were always trying to "be right" with each other. If this is someone you will be diving with often, it is constructive to suggest "hey, how about after every dive we debrief and consider various options?" This way, it is expected post dive to discuss things and you get very used to learning from each other's viewpoint. What is even better, is these are the buddies who eventually, you can read each other's minds because you have talked about all the various decisions. It sounds like you are on that track!

Why would he have to hydro a tank if the pressure got too low? I can see VIPing it.

 

[daniel f aleman]

Another thing for your buddy and you to give some thought to, is to not fall into a competing, adversarial relationship. I had a buddy once that he and I argued and were always trying to "be right" with each other."

Well, one of you had to be right. An argumentitive buddy soon dives solo...

 

[Diver0001]

I had a great time doing my first real dives in Playa. However, my buddy and I had a disagreement on our last dive of the trip. My buddy and I happen to have had the exact same air consumption on all of our check dives and the three prior dives during our trip (don't ask me how, I guess it is because we stick so close and have the same body build and number of dives).

On our last dive, we did a 45 foot drift dive for one hour. I actually made the call to ascend before him at 700 psi, so I thought everything was great at the safety stop. Although it was strange that for once I had used less than him. But I didn't question it as he gave the 700 sign as we ascended (fist to the head, that is a new sign I never learned in OW certification!). Then, a minute into the safety stop at 15ft after a 15ft/sec ascent he gives me a 200 psi sign. I look at my gauge and I am at 500. I give him the thumbs up in a manner meaning ascend NOW. However, he just stays there and only goes up when I start to ascend without him. I had the octo out and ready to give to him, but he surfaced with 100 psi and never went OOA. Once on board I have some words with him before the others surface. He is mad that we didn't do the full safety stop and I am mad that he almost went OOA. He says that he knew he would not go OOA and going OOA at that depth is not a problem because I had the octo out and he could always do an ESA if I screwed up, and that the safety stop was more important.

So, who was right? I realize that I am partly to blame by not checking his pressure when we got to the stop. Also, how did he use up so much air on the acsent? All I can think is that he misread his gauge when he signaled 700 or was overweighted and was finning too much on the ascent.

I would have finished the saftety stop, perhaps with air sharing. You have a reserve for this very reason.

Also, I don't think there is reason to be mad at each other about this. Analyse what went wrong and learn from it. Getting mad isn't going to make you better divers, but changing how you do things to avoid the same problem again will....

R..