Looking to buy a new camera

[liono]

Hi all,

I'm not sure if this belongs in the videography or the photography forums. So I posted it here.

I know a lot about technology but very little about cameras. You see I've never actually owned a camera, because I don't like them. But my wife is different!

Anyway, for her birthday I am looking to get her a new camera. We mostly take video of our trips but she likes having the ability to take good pictures too (mostly into macro shots.. she loves the tiny critters). We like how you can really capture the movement of the ocean with video, even though cameras have their obvious fortes as well.

I am rambling but here is my wish list... something that shoots in 1080p (or higher), 10-12MP (or higher), and does not require any large add-ons (like a flash). Something with modular capabilities would be great, so that she could add those things on in the future if desired.. not sure if most are like that or not. Price, preferably not over 2k USD if possible.

Her birthday is coming up soon and I will be researching this independently.. but your opinions haven't failed me in the past so I thought I'd post here to see if you ladies and gents could point me in the right direction

thanks,
danny

 

[Marty Cerven]

There are plenty of ways you can go, with a budget of 2k don't expect higher then 1080p and still 1080p is pretty good for video, not many cameras are shooting higher then this and definitely nothing in your budget even without a housing that I know off.

You have the basic point and shoot cams with waterproof housings, these include cameras like the Gopro and all these can give you a decent UW setup with camera and housing under $600. These are all small easy to use and can get some pretty decent results, some are better at photos others at videos so it all depends on what your looking for.

I use the Gopro and have enjoyed its use and I will eventually step up and also get a bigger camera with more options that go beyond the limitations of these little camera's.

Next step up though is a pretty big jump in price, I have a panasonic GH2 id love to take underwater but the housing I want for this camera is $2400. Its a great little micro 4/3 camera with interchangeable lenses that takes very good quality video, Im more into video then photos and this with some firmware hacks readily available can shoot video matching cameras costing over $3000. This camera has been around for a while so Im waiting to see what the next model has before getting a housing for this. Until then Im still very happy with what the GoPro can do and stepping up is not only price but also size and complexity in using it underwater with manual settings.

You can also go the dedicated video camcorder route, I haven't looked that much into these but housings for any decent camera these days tend to cost more then the camera itself. A $1000 camera with a good full function underwater housing will be $1500+ so I haven't seen much in the $600-$2000 price point for something much better then the point and shoot cams.

 

[diversteve]

GoPro might be a good option, affordable and shoot good quality video. Also tiny for travel purposes. You'll need the LCD Bacpac ($80) option to see what you're filming. I suggest getting a tray - both to mount light(s) and for stability underwater.

On the housed video camera side - something I know more about - there are options within your $2000 budget.

One would be one of the new Canon camcorders in a proprietary Canon housing with someone else's lights/arms/tray setup. There's 3 models, the VIXIA HF M500, M50 or M52 - all three work in the Canon WP-V4 housing - a feature reduced 130' max depth poly housing.

My buddy shoots an earlier model, it does zoom/tele, on/off, start/stop and allows you to view the LCD but it has no touchscreen capability. IIRC correctly you can shoot both stills and video simultaneously in the housing but double check that. One nice feature about the cameras is that Canon includes an underwater video mode.

Pricing is $479 for the WP-V4 housing on Amazon
The Canon MF 500 is $549.
The MF 50 is $649 at B&H.
The MF 52 is $749 at B&H

Without doing an in depth comparison it appears that the primary difference is that the MF 500 only uses external flash memory cards, the MF50 has 8GB of onboard flash memory in addition and the MF52 has 32GB of onboard flash memory.

So for around $1200-ish you have options. Decent lights will eat up the rest of your $2K in a hurry if you plan to do any low-light/night shooting - you'll need two for even coverage. Plus another $200 for the tray/light arms, fittings etc. - that stuff is really pricey.

One new option I recently saw are these 900 lumen mini-video lights from Tec Gear - IDK anything about them but at $219 each might be worth a look. Another option I like for lights are the Light & Motion Sola 1200's but you'll only get one for $700. A third option are the I-Torch video lights - 2 are approx. $800 total.

So it should be doable within a $2K budget. However....(had to see that coming...)

None of these Canon cameras approach 10-12MP stills. The MF 52 only has a 2.73MP sensor - the effective resolution for stills would be 2.07MP. IIRC correctly the others are equivalent or worse.

To get better still resolution you'll need a better Canon camera in a more expensive housing. IDK which models specifically but there's a lot of them listed here. So maybe find one you like then see if there's a housing for it. Options are in the current video housing mfr's list at the top of this forum. Note that mechanical housings are pretty model specific, electronic housings may work over a wider range of models.

It's possible that a camera/housing combo (no lights) might be doable under $2K- the least expensive housings would be some Ikelite models at around $1200 - you'll need to sort out which camera/housing combos work. Or an Equinox HD6 housing at $949. With the Equinox add $3-400 more for their monitor plus shade - you'll need it to see what you're filming. Since the Ikelite is clear you use the camera LCD.

Another option is to house a Sony CX-580 - around $800 retail. And does 20.4MP Stills. Equinox makes an HD6 for it also. Same price.

If you can live with 8.9MP stills - and a 160 GB hard-drive instead of flash memory storage, the XR-260V is currently on sale for $599. IDK who currently makes a housing for it though.

Maybe you're better off buying a really good P&S still camera and an Ikelite housing. Something like a Canon S100 - shoots 1080P video and 12MP stills, the Ikelite housing for it is $325+ and add their video lite for $250 + $100 for the tray/mounting.

hth, it was kind of fun getting back up to speed on what is available now.

 

[liono]

diversteve,

thanks for the thorough write up! The GoPro doesn't have an underwater red filter does it? I know our current sea life camera does and it can make a pretty big difference.

You provided a lot of good info, exactly what I was looking for. I think I'm going to pick one and then discuss it with the wifey on her birthday Too expensive to buy the wrong one, hehe.

Also, if something is leaps and bounds better for slightly over my budget, I'd be interested in hearing about that too. Otherwise, I think 2k sounds like a nice round number...

thanks
danny

 

[ronscuba]

....
hth, it was kind of fun getting back up to speed on what is available now.

Yeah, I am totally out of touch. Enjoyed reading your summary. Looks like not much has changed in the middle market. Seems like we are in the end cycle of what used to be high performance, makes it's way down to mid level consumer cams, then gets squeezed down into smaller cheaper low level consumer cams.

Something should break in the next 2-5 yrs. with the cycle starting all over again.

 

[liono]

Yeah, I am totally out of touch. Enjoyed reading your summary. Looks like not much has changed in the middle market. Seems like we are in the end cycle of what used to be high performance, makes it's way down to mid level consumer cams, then gets squeezed down into smaller cheaper low level consumer cams.

Something should break in the next 2-5 yrs. with the cycle starting all over again.

Out of curiosity, how expensive are the cameras (w/ all the add-ons) that you guys are using?

 

[JamesK]

diversteve,

thanks for the thorough write up! The GoPro doesn't have an underwater red filter does it? I know our current sea life camera does and it can make a pretty big difference.

You provided a lot of good info, exactly what I was looking for. I think I'm going to pick one and then discuss it with the wifey on her birthday Too expensive to buy the wrong one, hehe.

Also, if something is leaps and bounds better for slightly over my budget, I'd be interested in hearing about that too. Otherwise, I think 2k sounds like a nice round number...

thanks
danny

While GoPro does not offer a red filter, many aftermarket companies do. You will need a flat lens housing for underwater use anyway, and most of the manufacturers of flat lenses offer a red filter option.

Check out the following, and look at the new GoPro sub forum here for reviews.

BlurFix

Eye Of Mine Homepage

Backscatter Custom GoPro Underwater Housing Blur Fix Glass lens and Underwater Removable Filter Mount

MAKO Spearguns and Spearfishing Gear

 

[ronscuba]

Out of curiosity, how expensive are the cameras (w/ all the add-ons) that you guys are using?

I recently sold my system. The camera itself costs around $2k right now. The housing was a Gates. The UW video community would generally categorize the system as high level, but not pro.

Videos from this system are in my signature link if you are curious.

 

[liono]

I recently sold my system. The camera itself costs around $2k right now. The housing was a Gates. The UW video community would generally categorize the system as high level, but not pro.

Videos from this system are in my signature link if you are curious.

Ya, I was watching the Indonesia preview on your site That's why I asked. That cuttlefish that was walking around like a hippo was awesome!!

Which camera was that shot with? Does it say on your site? Is this video the raw footage, or is it encoded for the internet?

thanks,
danny

 

[diversteve]

Out of curiosity, how expensive are the cameras (w/ all the add-ons) that you guys are using?

I spent $3500 for my Sony HDV camera and Amphibico EVO housing - 2005 prices. I don't own lights but if I did they'd be about $1500 more.

An equivalent system with more features than mine has would now be about $2500. Amphibico still makes my housing - upgraded with a back LCD monitor for $1995. The least expensive camera it can house is the discontinued (but available) Sony CX-110 - $400 on Amazon.
The housing has all the standard controls plus extras like a hydrophone, flip red filter, leak detector, in-water video review, white balance (some models), a 330' depth rating and interchangeable ports. They also sell a cost reduced version called the Turtle, it has a flat port only and no flip filter or hydrophone (can be added) for $1195. It's an older design though so may not work with the current Sony camera line.

A Gates housing for a current Sony model like the CX560 is $2490. Light and Motion makes one for equivalent Canon models starting at $2799. Aquatica makes their HD Wave for specific Sony models for $2600. The four mfr's - plus some Euro counterparts like Aditech, 10Bar and a couple others - are generally considered the premier lines - the difference being that Gates and Aquatica use manual controls, L&M and Amphibico are electronic. Neither is better just depends on what you like. If Fisheye/Seatools is still making housings? theirs are among the tiniest full featured models made - they're molded around the specific model they're designed for - started around $2700.

If you want to get a better idea of what's available Optical Ocean Sales or Reef Photo Video list quite a lot of u/w video gear. My buddy bought his lights from Reef. Backscatter is another reliable source.