Long hose setup question

[Sas]

Lately I have been thinking of changing my regulator hose set up due to the fact that I have had to share air twice in the last few weeks and my current set up is a PITA for airsharing. First time was inside a wreck and my occy is so short we had to face one another (couldn't really go side by side) whilst I fixed my buddy's tank valve. And this weekend I had to share air with another buddy going up a drift line and do a stop in a very strong current, and it was really very awkward as I was trying to go up the line but we had to stay very close and face to face so I didn't pull the occy out of my buddy's mouth. - he said it was pulling on his mouth the whole time.

I have read a few threads here about how to set up a long hose as a primary and a short hose for my occy and put it on a necklace, but still am a bit confused. I do recreational diving in open water mainly but there is one wreck that I do go inside, but it is fairly wide in most areas so could probably swim side by side in most areas. I was wondering what length would suit me on for a long hose? I know 7'' is for cave diving, and 5'' is usually recommended for open water diving if you are 'average sized', with 6'' if you are tall? I'm 5'11'' and I'm guessing that is average sized so a 5'' would be appropriate (or shorter?).

Also what size hose goes on my occy? The shop I often go to say they can make any length on their website so wondering how short it needs to be. My buddy was thinking of making the same changes to his setup but he didn't like the idea of having a short hose on his occy and wanted the long primary hose and a reasonable sized hose on his occy, does this set up work also? He says that way he has the option of donating either. We are both new at this though, so don't have much of an idea what is workable.

And one more question~ I looked at pictures of people with the long hose on themselves tonight so I guess the basic idea is that it goes under your arm and then around your neck and into your mouth. Does it stay under your arm ok? Just wondering if I need to clip it to anything... or stick it under anything.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[String]

2.1m/7ft hose is "standard" but one thing you dont say is what the rest of your kit is like - on a standard jacket BC it'll be hard to hog-loop and store a 7ft hose properly with the lack of a proper waist strap, cannister light and so on.

The 5ft hose maybe better in that you loop it under your right armpit, across chest then round the back of the head so easier to stow.

The other option is a long hose and bungee to the tank but this is impossible to restow if used.

Oh and for these setups you donate your primary reg from the mouth and your backup is on a very short hose bungeed around your neck so it doesnt go anywhere.

Edit:- I'd also start looking for new buddies!

 

[stairman]

I use a 7 ft hse for my primary.It comes off my right tank down and is tucked under my can light.Then it comes across my chest up over my left shoulder and around my neck.My backup is under my chin held by a necklase bungee.The primary is for air sharing then I go to my backup.A 5ft hose could be used if you dont swim a can light on your RH waist belt or you could tuck the extra under a safety reel or knife sheath or tuck it in your waist band.It seem aukward and goofy at first but is mandatory in caving so I am now used to it.

 

[Sas]

2.1m/7ft hose is "standard" but one thing you dont say is what the rest of your kit is like - on a standard jacket BC it'll be hard to hog-loop and store a 7ft hose properly with the lack of a proper waist strap, cannister light and so on.

The 5ft hose maybe better in that you loop it under your right armpit, across chest then round the back of the head so easier to stow.

I have a Scubapro Ladyhawk BC, it is a backinflate style BC. I dive with a 12L or 10L steel tank, no twins. I do not have a cannister light. The only things on my BC are a camera occasionally and my SMB hangs off a D-ring on the bottom. Though I am getting a drysuit in two weeks so that will go in my pocket along with my knife. Any other info needed about my setup?

Sorry I don't know what you mean by 'hog-loop'. Well I saw someone on the boat with a 7ft hose and it seemed a bit overkill for me and the type of diving I do?

The other option is a long hose and bungee to the tank but this is impossible to restow if used.

How does this work?

Oh and for these setups you donate your primary reg from the mouth and your backup is on a very short hose bungeed around your neck so it doesnt go anywhere.

I am aware that I donate the primary and switch to the occy around my neck with this type of setup. I am happy with that and wouldn't donate my occy. My buddy though, asked about what happens if an OOA buddy goes for your occy around your neck, that is why he said he wanted to be able to donate both - or does that just not happen?

 

[Cyclops_Diver]

I went through the same decision process as you are. I didnt have a can light at first, so I went with a 5' hose. It was a PITA because it sat wrong on my backup lights that rest along my shoulder straps and the hose, even at 5', was so short it was uncomfortable in my mouth.

If the rest of your rig will handle it, meaning if you have a BC that has something on the right hand side to tuck the hose under whether that be a pocket, or the waist band, I would go with the 7' hose. That way you have some control over the length and how it rests on your body. Now that I have the can light I got the 7' hose and it all sits nice and comfortable. With that Ladyhawk, I'm not sure. You might get the hose to rest under one of the weight pockets...maybe even between the pocket and your body but you'd have to test that since I'm guessing!

I tried the hose bungeed to the tank, but it was a silly method in my opinion since it has to be laid out in such a way that when you need it all you need to do is tug and the hose pulls free. But that also means that if you catch the hose on something, say Kelp out here in California, it can possibly pull the rest of the hose out and it's impossible to stow it back on the tank by yourself. I used bungee around the tank and the hose ran up and down along the tank under the bungee. Kinda like this ~~~~ but taller and closer together! Just pull the regulator ang it just pulls free.

As for the bungeed backup regulator. I don't think I want to go so far as saying that 22" is "standard" but that's all I've ever seen people use. but I have heard of some measuring 24". Personally I use a 22" hose for the backup.

If the LDS you frequent allows it, maybe you could try out a couple different lengths to see which suits you better?

Hope that helps! Safe diving!

 

[Sas]

Edit:- I'd also start looking for new buddies!

Oh I just saw this edit! I trust that this will not happen again with either of my regular buddies with the exception of equipment failure causing an OOA situation. The drift line was low on air situation only as my buddy got overexerted (and his inflator hose had a leak) so we thought it would be safer for him to go on my air has I had over half a tank left and he was sucking down his air too fast - if we'd skipped the safety stop he would have been fine with the air he had. (Though given how he was overexerted we thought a safety stop would be a good idea as I know overwork increases DCS likelihood) He signaled for the ascent as soon as he reached our turn around pressure.

The other incident in the wreck, well that is a long story - definitely user error there but I believe it won't happen again! Done a "debrief" on that one.

 

[String]

Sorry I don't know what you mean by 'hog-loop'. Well I saw someone on the boat with a 7ft hose and it seemed a bit overkill for me and the type of diving I do?

Some images:

diverfront

The hose comes down the tank, across the right hip (under a canister light, knife or tucked into waist), across chest and around the back of the next). Its a neat way of doing it but with a BCD i think it'll be impossible - i tried it here for a while and it got messy so maybe forget the 7ft idea.

The 5ft idea though would work with it running under your right armpit, across chest to left shoulder and around the back of the neck. That would route neatly for storage and would give you 5ft of hose instead of standard 3ft6" octopus.
In my view thats your best option.

Bungee involves bungee cords around the tank with the excess hose held to the tank under that and just enough free for you to breathe from. If its needed for OOA you can simply pull it and the excess comes out from the bungee for use. It cant be restowed though but would work.

My buddy though, asked about what happens if an OOA buddy goes for your occy around your neck

Well he can pull it all he wants and its not going anywhere at all - the whole point of your backup is its a working reg 100% guaranteed to be available to you at any time in the dive should it be needed, without looking, unclipping and so on. To keep it neat its also on a short hose so wouldnt even reach a buddy.
If you insisted on making that donate-able too use a standard length reg hose and one of the surgical tubing necklaces that will release when pulled. I dont recommend this though.

 

[SteveAD]

With the ladyhawk (or most any back inflate BC) you can run the hose down behind your right shoulder, tuck a loop into the cummerbund, then up accross the chest, and behind the neck.

As for the buddy going for the wrong reg, that, in my opinion, is one of the primary advantages of long hose. If the ooa diver is calm, and following the plan he will take the reg from your mouth, if he is panicked and just grabs the first thing he sees, he'll take the reg from your mouth. It is almost inconcievable that an ooa buddy will go for anything but the mouth if he has been briefed about the reasoning behind your configuration. This can be further reinforced by making sure that you do not use a brightly colored backup.

 

[robertarak]

My buddy though, asked about what happens if an OOA buddy goes for your occy around your neck, that is why he said he wanted to be able to donate both - or does that just not happen?

The typical reaction of an OOA diver who panics is to go for air. Somtimes that means the surface and sometimes that means that thing in your mouth making bubbles. If an OOA diver is going to grab at something, it will usually be the working reg in your mouth. I will say that once you bungie a reg around your neck, it becomes a back-up and not an octo. I know, seems like just silly names, but when you and your buddies start to treat them and think of them in the right terms then it becomes that much easier when you really need to use them without thought.
So, the "back-up" is on your necklace and it it not yellow, and it is not for donating, it is for you, you donate your primaryand switch to your back-up. By the way...nobody should be grabbing anything from you. You should be aware enough of your buddy and any problem they are having well before they come up and start pawing at your regs.

NOW, with all that said. Changing your gear configuration is not a substitute for proper training. Given the two incidents you mentioned, you and your buddy need better training, especialy in gas management. Although the long hose and bugied back up are, in my opinion, a safer configuration, GEAR, CONFIGURATION OR GAGETS CAN NOT TAKE THE PLACE OF TRAINING. Simply chaning your set up is not the answer, you have to train with your set up. Find a mentor, find a class, dive safe.

 

[stairman]

Hey Sas,thanks for the PM on listing pictures.To a computer nerd I am an idiot on here.But I enjoy talking with others on dive forums.I have never got on other subject forums.I would probably try a 7 ft hose if I were you.Its a tech settup but can be a lifesaver in certain situations.Like all new gear it takes some tweeking