Little problem today

[mweitz]

So, had a little problem today. This was my 22nd dive and my buddies 8th (3rd since class)

It was like 1' vis at the surface (no, really, I couldn't read my compass). At 20' depth it opened up to about 10' and at 40' depth it was 20' or so.

The dive went fine, and we were on our way back to shore. At about 25' I wanted to surface so we could see each other during our safety stop. I signaled to ascent, he concured. I looked at my computer, looked up and he was already ascending. Probably went up 4 or 5 feet. I was trying to figure out what he was doing, but he at that point he was above me. I dropped my air (got negative) and grabbed his fin and held him (I am like at 15' now) for 30 seconds or so. I then let him go (I couldn't see him) since the rule is you don't help your buddy without his asking. I suspected that he just got too positive somehow, but couldn't confirm that...

So, I watch him go up and decide to skip my safety stop and head up rather quickly to make sure he is OK. I surfaced, asked if he was OK, he said yes. I had him inflate his BC then I told him we should head back to shore just in case there was a problem.

I kept checking with him on the swim back and he kept saying he was fine. I tried to keep a close eye on him, looking for signs of stress, removing gear and such. Things looked good. He swam in too close to get his fins off, and did it on his knees. I grabbed one of his fins and he dealt with the other. He took a rather long time to clip his fin, then we headed up to the car.

The report from him was that he was having all sorts of trouble with his bouyancy during the dive. He then said that as soon as he turned up he started to ascend. It happened rather quickly and he couldn't find his dump valve. It is also a new BC so he isn't quite used to it I don't think. I asked him if he was dumping air as we were slowly ascending on the swim back, he said no he forgot to. I surmised that he was a little positive and when he went vertical it just pushed him up.

So, now the question. I feel pretty good, and he seemed pretty good afterwards. I've attached my profile for the dive. I don't think it's that bad, but could you guys comment. I would also like to know what I could have done or should have done differently. I sorta feel like I didn't do a good job as a buddy and put him in danger by not reacting quickly enough / properly ....

Thanks,

Mark

 

[jbd]

So, had a little problem today. This was my 22nd dive and my buddies 8th (3rd since class)

It was like 1' vis at the surface (no, really, I couldn't read my compass). At 20' depth it opened up to about 10' and at 40' depth it was 20' or so.

The dive went fine, and we were on our way back to shore. At about 25' I wanted to surface so we could see each other during our safety stop. I signaled to ascent, he concured. I looked at my computer, looked up and he was already ascending. Probably went up 4 or 5 feet. I was trying to figure out what he was doing, but he at that point he was above me. I dropped my air (got negative) and grabbed his fin and held him (I am like at 15' now) for 30 seconds or so. I then let him go (I couldn't see him) since the rule is you don't help your buddy without his asking. I suspected that he just got too positive somehow, but couldn't confirm that...

So, I watch him go up and decide to skip my safety stop and head up rather quickly to make sure he is OK. I surfaced, asked if he was OK, he said yes. I had him inflate his BC then I told him we should head back to shore just in case there was a problem.

I kept checking with him on the swim back and he kept saying he was fine. I tried to keep a close eye on him, looking for signs of stress, removing gear and such. Things looked good. He swam in too close to get his fins off, and did it on his knees. I grabbed one of his fins and he dealt with the other. He took a rather long time to clip his fin, then we headed up to the car.

The report from him was that he was having all sorts of trouble with his bouyancy during the dive. He then said that as soon as he turned up he started to ascend. It happened rather quickly and he couldn't find his dump valve. It is also a new BC so he isn't quite used to it I don't think. I asked him if he was dumping air as we were slowly ascending on the swim back, he said no he forgot to. I surmised that he was a little positive and when he went vertical it just pushed him up.

So, now the question. I feel pretty good, and he seemed pretty good afterwards. I've attached my profile for the dive. I don't think it's that bad, but could you guys comment. I would also like to know what I could have done or should have done differently. I sorta feel like I didn't do a good job as a buddy and put him in danger by not reacting quickly enough / properly ....

Thanks,

Mark

Looks to me like it took you about 4 minutes to go from 30 feet to the surface if I understand your graph correctly. Should be no problems there. As for his "problems" with bouyancy control during the dive and for the ascent and missing the stop---it just takes practice as we have talked about elsewhere. You need to work a little more on buddy communcation skills a bit more but this will come with time and practice. Keep working on it. Stay shallow like you did this dive and stay focused on what you want to work on during each dive. You guys will do fine, don't let the little frustrations get you down too much.

You've got great attitude towards improving your diving and buddy seems to be right with you in that respect.


Just wwent back and had another look at your graph. 4 minutes to ascend 40 feet=10 feet per minute. If you did that all with bouyancy control---very nice!!

 

[Ontario Diver]

Mark;

Ya did fine bro.

You are out with a new diver and you are a new diver.

Your buddy with 8 dives had some bouyancy issues......not a surprise. You were at 40 ft which is a good safe dive to practise on. You watched all of the right stuff and were aware of what your buddy was doing. Communication could be better but hey - finding your dump valve is a key skill and most people don't get it right the first time.

Good on ya. I'd dive with you anyday.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I concur ... that graph looks pretty darn good to me.

If you're worried about missing your safety stop, don't. You kept your dive fairly conservative ... had a nice profile thoughout ... and as has been said, looks like you came up well within safe limits.

Yes, a safety stop would've been better ... but the reason you do these conservative profiles is to give yourself a bit of a safety margin if something goes wrong.

Seems to me that you handled the situation properly, start to finish.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Xanthro]

The safety stop was entirely optional on your dive. I practice a safety stop on every dive, not because it is needed on every dive, but to ensure skill on those dives where it is needed.

Your dive profile looks fine, and it appeared to be a good dive for learning. Your buddy needs to work on his control, and he learned this on a dive where the margin for error was enough that the safety stop did not have to be made.

I'm sure most people have missed a safety stop while learning. My sixth dive was like that. At 15 feet, I was in a nice hover, big surge hit me, pushed me up, next thing I know I was at 8 feet and was positively bouyant with no air in the BC. Nothing to do but slowly come up.

Now, I usually do my safety stops at 18 feet, especially with surge. I find it easier, and when waves push me up, I know how to react better.

It's all part of learning.

Xanthro

 

[mweitz]

Actually it was 30' in 2 minutes. Started at 26 minutes and ended at 28 minutes. So I should be fine there.

Should I have held him down or was it better to let him go?

Thanks for the replies.

Mark

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Should I have held him down or was it better to let him go?

As with most things, it depends on the circumstances. Here's my rule of thumb ...

If you can hold onto him and ascend at a safe rate, hang on. Slowing him down might prevent a bad situation.

If he's pulling you up with him in an uncontrolled manner, let go. Two victims are twice as bad as one.

In this case, no worries. You did well in choosing an appropriate profile for working on basic skills. There was little risk of damage if you lost buoyancy. However, in a more aggressive dive, where the risk of damage is greater, it's better for you to arrive at the surface in a condition that allows you to help your buddy get to shore. If that means letting him go while you do a more controlled ascent, then that's the thing to do. It sucks, but it's a judgment call you'll have to make for both your sakes.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Xanthro]

Actually it was 30' in 2 minutes. Started at 26 minutes and ended at 28 minutes. So I should be fine there.

Should I have held him down or was it better to let him go?

Thanks for the replies.

Mark

I would have let him go, because there is very little risk in skipping that optional safety stop on that dive, and the visibility was so poor that maybe something else could have been wrong, and he was unable to signal you.

Xanthro

 

[Kestrell]

Seems like you did fine. Your buddy might want to re-think his weighting.

I had a similar issue with my wife. She started to get too bouyant and was unable to stay down as our dive went on. In this case the vis was better (30') and I grabbed her BC harness and controlled bouyancy for the both of us. As a new diver I was a bit concerned, since I was pretty "task-loaded". I had to eventually give her an extra 2lbs from my weight just to keep her under. Not easy to do with gloves on, and with only one hand (I have two, but the other one was holding on to her), while maintaining a constant depth and venting air.

Keep at it, it gets better and easier each time.

By the way, I have a question, why does my wife need so much weight? She is 120-125lbs; with a 7mm and a steel 72 she needs at least 18lbs to stay under for the whole dive. I am 240lbs and with a 7mm and a steel 95 I am fine with 18lbs as well. I've checked for trapped air and anything else I can think of with no luck. Any suggestions?

 

[Scubaguy62]

Mark

The profile looks A1. Knowing the profile allowed for a straight ascent with no safety stop, without compromising safety, I would have done the same thing you did, an abbreviated safety stop and followed him up. He probably would have gone into some passive panic had he not seen you follow him up, but that's just my .02 psi.

By the way, I have a question, why does my wife need so much weight? She is 120-125lbs; with a 7mm and a steel 72 she needs at least 18lbs to stay under for the whole dive. I am 240lbs and with a 7mm and a steel 95 I am fine with 18lbs as well. I've checked for trapped air and anything else I can think of with no luck. Any suggestions?

Kestrell
1st your tank is more negatively buoyant than your wife's, 2nd, men have more lean muscle tissue than women, which is more negatively buoyant, hence your ability to sink with the same weight as your wife.

My wife is about 110, I am 210; she uses 12 lbs and I use 14; we both dive AL80's. My suit has about 100 dives more than hers though. Sometimes I rent her some steel 80's, which allow her to dive with 6 lbs.