Liability insurance for fill stations

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Not to beat a dead horse but I think @macado hit the nail on the head. Diver's up here just don't have the density and aren't centralized in one location to make a fill center work. I work in Cambridge and even with a couple dive shops in the area I went the same route as Macado and bought my own compressor because getting across town takes forever... and the Boston metro isnt that big. When Northeast Scuba closed almost 2 years ago one of Tom's friends bought all the equipment to open a fill station in Tewksbury planning to call it 'Night Air Scuba' (maybe this is you?). To my knowledge it never got off the ground - probably because fills are such a loss leader without anything to sell all you're doing is subsidizing everyone else until you go broke. Hell the way Wayne tells it at Amigos the only reason he was able to get up and running was through extraordinary support of lots of friends to make it happen - he couldn't have built it up or subsidized it on his own.

TL;DR - we don't have the concentration of divers to support it up here - you'd go broke.
 
Your homeowners insurance will never allow this. In fact, if you have a home fill station, don't ask them about it.

Yeah. I agree I'm not sure the legality here. Let's put in this way..I'm never planning on mentioning my personal fill station to my homeowners insurance :)

There is one guy that I know of here locally that runs a dive shop / commercial fill staton out of his own home but I'm really not sure how he handles insurance. Might be a don't ask / don't tell type situation. It's quite a nice setup that rivals most small dive shops.
 
Let's put in this way..I'm never planning on mentioning my personal fill station to my homeowners insurance :)

And hope that nothing comes up like a lawsuit or accident. "Friends" may not sue but partners and families and relatives of friends are often quite willing to do so.

And I will point out you are now electronically searchable should an issue ever arise and an insurance company wants to get out of paying.
 
And I will point out you are now electronically searchable should an issue ever arise and an insurance company wants to get out of paying.

Yeah..this is getting completely off topic from the original post which asked about liability insurance for setting up a commercial fill station. If my wife sues me then I have bigger problems. It's also her fill station that she uses to fill tanks for me.

I have no desire to run any sort of business out of my home. It's already an extreme rarity that I ever fill for anyone other than myself or wife but when it does happen it's small risk I am willing to accept for close friends. I don't accept or ask for money. If I am filling for someone it's because their own compressor is not working. I know that still doesn't mean they won't try and sue my pants off if something goes wrong but I don't live my life in fear of that.

I'm sure that I"m "electronically searchable" for far worse things..
 
Is there a question here? I have seen a few fill stations dedicated to providing excellent service and wonderful gas. Sadly they are not typically sustainable, as the LDS will undercut you to get folks into their shop. Fill Express is an excellent example.

I can state with certain knowledge that an operation focused on filling recreational scuba tanks can be modestly profitable, providing a steady income. However, it could be successful only if designed from the outset for high volumes, mixed gases (i.e. nitrox and trimix, as opposed to air) and with high quality product (bang on analysis and ultra pure). There are realistically only a few places in the US with the shear number of divers and types of diving that could support that kind of operation; south east Florida might be the only one. (I don't think even the Keys would work, given the transient nature of their customer base but Wookie would know better than I.) Fill Express ultimately was sold as a thriving and profitable stand alone fill station business, but the new owner decided to switch to a traditional sport LDS business model that in hindsight might have been one major factor among many in their later GOB.

I don't believe discount fills competition is a serious obstacle to a "fill station" type operation, it's a declining threat. While the dive industry business model of giving away services to sell equipment continues to exist far past when I believed it would have totally collapsed, it is clearly on the wane. Divers will pay a fair price for a quality product, regardless if someone down the street is offering two dollar tuesday air fills. Insurance it not a serious obstacle either, although designing a system today I would want to find a viable solution for blast protection in a high volume operation.

I recently heard some data that suggests the average gross sales of an LDS in the US is under $200K. If my memory serves, Fill Express gross sales (net of the online portion) was about $250K when it changed hands in 2010. No matter how you look at that number, there is not a lot of room to get rich... but it's a good "retirement income supplement". The reality is that the local dive shop is still a small business, and when operated with attention to detail in a business like manner can provide jobs for small number of people who are willing to work very hard for modest pay.
 
Greetings dive professionals. Several years hence I will be retiring from my regular work and would like to start a business serving the diving community. Setting up a fill station for everything from air through mixed gas for tech along with tank inspections requires careful precision that appeals to me. I can imagine that a business involving the filling of high pressure gas cylinders combined with selling a product used for human consumption is going to require the need for some serious liability insurance. I'm thinking about getting certified to do tank inspections so I can get a Saturday job working at my LDS as a way to get exposure to the business side of scuba.
Keep in mind I'm talking retirement business so I'm not looking to get rich. Just supplement my retirement and keep myself occupied.

B...

Of primary concern is ''where'' you intend to undertake your proposed commercial enterprise...

You'll find out real quick...if it is your intention to start a commercial operation in a residential neighbourhood...namely your garage...insuring your proposition will be the least of your worries...

You'll need a business licence to sell to the public...which will not be granted if you intend to operate on residential property...

Your neighbours won't be long in reporting you for running your compressor all hours...not to mention the business traffic you'll be creating...

The price of a compressor system/booster/cascade bank/oxygen/helium...will likely be sufficient to set your ''thinking in another direction...

Unfortunately so many dive operators make the poorest of business people...you certainly will not get rich...it will cost you money...and having been retired for almost eleven years...I found out in the first two years...that retirement supplement ideas are fine...as long as they remain ideas...and are not implemented...as implementation costs $$$$...that you will never see a return on...

Leave diving as a love...never a life...

Best of luck on your retirement...

W.M...
 
depending where you live you can sell out of your garage , (check bylaws) and I do know people who do make money doing scuba part time , and those people have the credentials to do it ......don't go with a flimsy youll never make money , if you spend the right money in the right demographic you can and will make money
 
..that retirement supplement ideas are fine...as long as they remain ideas...and are not implemented...as implementation costs $$$$...that you will never see a return on...

Retirement supplement ideas have been good to me, however I have kept them based on expertise and equipment I already possess. I could start something new, as I have before, but I find little joy in planning.

.....don't go with a flimsy youll never make money , if you spend the right money in the right demographic you can and will make money

If one is willing spend their time in research and planning a profitable business could be developed. Whether it turns out to be when and where it’s convenient for the owner is the question. It’s a matter of how one wants to spend their time in retirement.
 
depending where you live you can sell out of your garage , (check bylaws) and I do know people who do make money doing scuba part time , and those people have the credentials to do it ......don't go with a flimsy youll never make money , if you spend the right money in the right demographic you can and will make money

ABN...

True to a point...having a king's ransom in credentials...and all the gear/equipment/tools and expertise in our beloved hobby...''PRE-RETIREMENT''...makes a significant difference...

Most are not that fortunate...

I tried learning something brand new post retirement...which happened to be dive industry related...long story short...had lots of fun...met some great people...learned a few things which I still use today...but...

Based on annual totals...additional income tax...$1500...fuel for work $1000...vehicle service for additional work KLM $2000...total annual expenditures for work...$4500...net part time annual income averaged over 7 years...$5000...total annual net income after expenditures...$500...you're right...I made money...$3500 in seven years...

Any regrets...no...anyone else to blame but me...no...I used to tell myself that the work helped to support the diving...ya right...would I do it again...when pigs fly...

My total annual ''diving'' expenditures have been basically the same since 2006...but by not working anymore...over the last four years... I've managed to save $18,400...in work related expenses...and have lost only $2000 in wages in the process...

My math tells me that I've made more money by not working...

W.M...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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