on my way wanda
Registered
I would like some input on what everyone thinks should be qualifactions of a diver to start the DM course. eg # of dives, experience, years of diving , someone thinks you might be a good DM or just for cash flow???
lets look at the DM course
- Thread starter on my way wanda
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.....since I began my DM training. I thought as long as I was a good diver NP.....WRONG.....
First I found I wasn't as good a diver as I thought. Second I have found I have to be very observant at all times with my "charges". Thirdly, it is not always fun.
I began my DM with just over 100 dives. I was and am comfortable in the water and I thought I was reasonable skilled in the water.
Well I was wrong. Although I am comfortable I discovered I had lots to learn about diving. I dumped almost 10lbs of the weight belt as I became a diver. I am now forever watching the other divers get ready for the dives. I can usually tell looking at a diver if they are overweighted. (Couldn't before).
I just feel a good instructor is invaluable to become a good DM.
I now have closer to 180 dives since I began my DM course in May, and each new dive is learning experience. I really feel I have become a diver now.
First I found I wasn't as good a diver as I thought. Second I have found I have to be very observant at all times with my "charges". Thirdly, it is not always fun.
I began my DM with just over 100 dives. I was and am comfortable in the water and I thought I was reasonable skilled in the water.
Well I was wrong. Although I am comfortable I discovered I had lots to learn about diving. I dumped almost 10lbs of the weight belt as I became a diver. I am now forever watching the other divers get ready for the dives. I can usually tell looking at a diver if they are overweighted. (Couldn't before).
I just feel a good instructor is invaluable to become a good DM.
I now have closer to 180 dives since I began my DM course in May, and each new dive is learning experience. I really feel I have become a diver now.
Greetings from below
Well! I have to put in my three cents here and this is my own observations. I've been diving for 26 year and over the last lets say 4 years I've met more unskilled Dive Masters on boats than I have ever met in all my years of diving. I can't believe the amount of Dive Masters "working" who do not know how to use basic dive tables or apply emergency procedures when needed. I strongly believe diving instructors who teach the Dive Master courses are not getting the message across to the students and or don't know much about Dive Mastering themselves. I also think On the other hand that I've met some excellent Dive Masters who are smarter, quicker and more skilled than some instructors. I think its time some one told Randy G of PADI canada to put away his palm pilot and marketing campaign and rethink padi's instructor to student Dive Master program. I also beleave that every Dive Master canadiate should complete some type of hands on advanced power boating skills and mechanical program, other than that basic pleasure craft card course.
Thank you
D M I
:boom:
Well! I have to put in my three cents here and this is my own observations. I've been diving for 26 year and over the last lets say 4 years I've met more unskilled Dive Masters on boats than I have ever met in all my years of diving. I can't believe the amount of Dive Masters "working" who do not know how to use basic dive tables or apply emergency procedures when needed. I strongly believe diving instructors who teach the Dive Master courses are not getting the message across to the students and or don't know much about Dive Mastering themselves. I also think On the other hand that I've met some excellent Dive Masters who are smarter, quicker and more skilled than some instructors. I think its time some one told Randy G of PADI canada to put away his palm pilot and marketing campaign and rethink padi's instructor to student Dive Master program. I also beleave that every Dive Master canadiate should complete some type of hands on advanced power boating skills and mechanical program, other than that basic pleasure craft card course.
Thank you
D M I
:boom:
I have to agree with you.
My instructor required me to know how to operate a boat ( NP I have been running many different types of boats for years, in many different conditions).
He insists that I know how to fill tanks ( not a big deal, but lots of DMs don't know how).
I have can do the vis on tanks (not "licensed") so that I can really understand the process.
I can do some repairs on regs ( again for information only).
He insists that I learn how to do everything required to run dive shop, charter operation etc. I have to be prepared to do everything.
He insists that I teach as much as possible and assume responsibility for student divers.
All this in preparation to become a good DM.
He will not sign off on my DM until he sees I am comfortable with the students in the water, and I am knowledgable in the whole DM concept.
My instructor required me to know how to operate a boat ( NP I have been running many different types of boats for years, in many different conditions).
He insists that I know how to fill tanks ( not a big deal, but lots of DMs don't know how).
I have can do the vis on tanks (not "licensed") so that I can really understand the process.
I can do some repairs on regs ( again for information only).
He insists that I learn how to do everything required to run dive shop, charter operation etc. I have to be prepared to do everything.
He insists that I teach as much as possible and assume responsibility for student divers.
All this in preparation to become a good DM.
He will not sign off on my DM until he sees I am comfortable with the students in the water, and I am knowledgable in the whole DM concept.
OP
on my way wanda
Registered
It sounds like you have a wise instructor butch 103 would you say you are comfortable with students ???
Kevin R
Guest
Just out of curiousity Butch do you get paid as a DM? Most DM's that I know of do not, they are offered other incentives for their time.
Kevin
Kevin
Yeah Kev.........like 10% off equipment.....the likes no-one else gets,...right???
WRONG:
I overheard a joe-who getting the same pricing as a supposed DM pricing..........I really wonder........
Or one of the better ones I've heard.....PADI (NAUI) (YMCA) expects you to work for nothing as a DM for the shop.......
HAHA
Yeah.
The problem is, it's all so over-inflated pricing, they're making a mint either way.
AS for DM's............In the first OW class I helped out on as a DM, we put through a guy that, not 6 months later, I heard was going for his instructors...........
What a sham, what a shame.
It nice you're doing that stuff Butch, but when the $hit hits the fan, who's insurance is it going to fall on?
You know, a reg you touched fails (You're not officially a repair person yet) Or something goes wrong at the fill station (You're not a certified gas blender yet), Or a tank goes KaabooM after you visualled it (You're not trained for that either).
Odds are good it ain't ever gonna happen...........but who you gonna call if it does??
Can you say 4ATA of Poop?
TO Sum up:
A neccesary evil on the way to instructing.
WRONG:
I overheard a joe-who getting the same pricing as a supposed DM pricing..........I really wonder........
Or one of the better ones I've heard.....PADI (NAUI) (YMCA) expects you to work for nothing as a DM for the shop.......
HAHA
Yeah.
The problem is, it's all so over-inflated pricing, they're making a mint either way.
AS for DM's............In the first OW class I helped out on as a DM, we put through a guy that, not 6 months later, I heard was going for his instructors...........
What a sham, what a shame.
It nice you're doing that stuff Butch, but when the $hit hits the fan, who's insurance is it going to fall on?
You know, a reg you touched fails (You're not officially a repair person yet) Or something goes wrong at the fill station (You're not a certified gas blender yet), Or a tank goes KaabooM after you visualled it (You're not trained for that either).
Odds are good it ain't ever gonna happen...........but who you gonna call if it does??
Can you say 4ATA of Poop?
TO Sum up:
A neccesary evil on the way to instructing.
annie
Contributor
Butch
Sounds like a great instructor but pardon me if I point out something I'm not sure about
>>He insists that I teach as much as possible and assume responsibility for student divers. <<
as far as I know, DMs aren't supposed to teach or assume responsibility for student divers?
Sounds like a great instructor but pardon me if I point out something I'm not sure about
>>He insists that I teach as much as possible and assume responsibility for student divers. <<
as far as I know, DMs aren't supposed to teach or assume responsibility for student divers?
Kevin R
Guest
Our shop recently improved the DM's reward program changing it from a % off full pop to cost + 20%, membership and insurance costs are reimbursed through store credit, free visuals, discount on labour in svc dept, etc.
I once thought that the stores are making a fortune on markup, however, now that I work in one, I can tell you that they don't make much after paying for the cascade, compressor, rentals, service on rentals, compressor, cascade etc., instructor fees, insurance, plus the fact that as soon as one shop in the area starts to lose sales, they will firesale half their inventory to bring in customers. What you as a customer percieves to be one shop selling at a good price and another screwing you is actually one shop on the way out and trying to bring back its market share. This one of the reasons that the Ottawa area has a high dive shop turnover.
The reason I asked Butch if he was paid for his services is that I have never heard of a shop actually paying their DM's and I was curious as to where he is working. I was once an active DM, however, since moving into the reg shop I no longer have the time to do both.
As to who's going to cover you when something goes wrong, I would have been the last to believe it, but PADI will stand behind you so long as you followed their policies and procedures during the accident period. Their legal dept. is there as well as councelling if it is required. As for gear serviceing, I made sure I was listed on the shops insurance rider before I started fixing gear. I am a full time technician for Ford and am well aware that Mr. Murphy is always close by. The most important thing to remember here is cower your behind (write everything down) and always be able to prove due dillegence.
I agree on the quality of instruction out there. It is horrible. I also thought I was the next Jaques Cousteau once I was a knighted PADI professional. It wasn't until my ego was horribly deflated during my technical training that I realized where the system has failed and started comparing the instructors to their students, and began noticing that many do not have any better skills than those they are certifying. Number of dives completed before becoming an instructor means nothing. I can do my OW and adv, knock off 20 dives in Prescott, do rescue, perform 40 more dives in Prescott, do DM, followed by 40 more dives in prescott and become an instructor all within one Canadian dive year. What real experiences or skill do I have to pass on to the students? Chances are I cannot swim without raising silt, cannot hold a hover without forward motion, cannot deal with real life task loading. Cannot give advice on minor repairs, the list goes on....
Under PADI, which is the only recreational agency I have trained with, a DM is only allowed to help a student with a skill he has already been taught by an instructor. The DM cannot teach a new skill. A certified DM may take responsibility for students in the water during the tour portion of the OW certification. If I am mistaken here please feel free to correct me. I'm sure someone will.
Kevin
I once thought that the stores are making a fortune on markup, however, now that I work in one, I can tell you that they don't make much after paying for the cascade, compressor, rentals, service on rentals, compressor, cascade etc., instructor fees, insurance, plus the fact that as soon as one shop in the area starts to lose sales, they will firesale half their inventory to bring in customers. What you as a customer percieves to be one shop selling at a good price and another screwing you is actually one shop on the way out and trying to bring back its market share. This one of the reasons that the Ottawa area has a high dive shop turnover.
The reason I asked Butch if he was paid for his services is that I have never heard of a shop actually paying their DM's and I was curious as to where he is working. I was once an active DM, however, since moving into the reg shop I no longer have the time to do both.
As to who's going to cover you when something goes wrong, I would have been the last to believe it, but PADI will stand behind you so long as you followed their policies and procedures during the accident period. Their legal dept. is there as well as councelling if it is required. As for gear serviceing, I made sure I was listed on the shops insurance rider before I started fixing gear. I am a full time technician for Ford and am well aware that Mr. Murphy is always close by. The most important thing to remember here is cower your behind (write everything down) and always be able to prove due dillegence.
I agree on the quality of instruction out there. It is horrible. I also thought I was the next Jaques Cousteau once I was a knighted PADI professional. It wasn't until my ego was horribly deflated during my technical training that I realized where the system has failed and started comparing the instructors to their students, and began noticing that many do not have any better skills than those they are certifying. Number of dives completed before becoming an instructor means nothing. I can do my OW and adv, knock off 20 dives in Prescott, do rescue, perform 40 more dives in Prescott, do DM, followed by 40 more dives in prescott and become an instructor all within one Canadian dive year. What real experiences or skill do I have to pass on to the students? Chances are I cannot swim without raising silt, cannot hold a hover without forward motion, cannot deal with real life task loading. Cannot give advice on minor repairs, the list goes on....
Under PADI, which is the only recreational agency I have trained with, a DM is only allowed to help a student with a skill he has already been taught by an instructor. The DM cannot teach a new skill. A certified DM may take responsibility for students in the water during the tour portion of the OW certification. If I am mistaken here please feel free to correct me. I'm sure someone will.
Kevin
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