Lds Frustration

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yknot

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Messages
653
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2
Location
Detroit Area (Downriver)
Alot has been said about the evils of online purchasing and what it means to the future of your LDS but the following example is why online stores will continue to florish.
I took two tanks to the LDS nearest my house. One tank needed just a fill but the other had an out of date visual. When I entered the store there were three employees present, two doing basically nothing constructive, and I was the only customer in the store. I asked if it would be possible to get a visual done on the one tank while I waited as I wanted to use the tank the next day. I was directed to the price board hanging up in the corner that listed visuals at $10+ an air fill and "instant visuals" at $15+ a fill. Obviously in need of the tank I choose the "instant" option for an additional $5. I did have a discussion with the employee doing the inspection and air fills about what my expectations were to final tank pressures while one tank was filling, but that is another story all together. At some point, tiring at looking at the vastly overpriced merchandise in the store, I stepped up to the counter to pay for sevices rendered. Employee #1 disappeared temporarily to check and see if employee #2 had experienced any issues with my tank o-rings while doing the vis and came back with two of them, the large main at the tank neck and the small one for sealing the regulator and proceeded to write my bill up for an additional $4--$2 an o-ring. LDS employee #1 tossed me the two o-rings removed from the tank with the suggestion that I hang on to them as they still looked good. I certainly couldn't find anything wrong with them. At this point, I asked LDS employee #2 why the o-rings were changes and response was "we always change them". I suggested that they really need to change their price board, as it is obviously impossible to get a $15 visual. I will point out also that this tank was purchased at this store and is only about a year and a half old and has not been used much at all. Also, I am at about $2000 in business with this LDS so it's not like I just walked in off the street. At this point, for the cost of two o-rings, I feel taken advantage of. To add insult to injury, the tank I had inspected and filled was a couple of hundred pounds under full the next day- and this after the LDS employee insisted that I had a good fill. Bottom line-$24 for a visual with a fill, and I feel like I really don't ever want to darken their door again. Next option for an LDS for me is about 6 miles further. One owner there already has told me in no uncertain terms that for us to build a relationship I need to spend several thousand dollars in his store. When you think that online buying means no service, just remember that your LDS may not provide much either.
 
Dang dude....Sounds like a tough bunch. I know my LDS here is a good group of dive fanatics and I didn't have to spend 1/2 as much (though I am a few bucks in) and I dive with one of the instructors from the shop even. Sounds like you have a rough bunch - find a new shop and don't even take $$ - just rap about diving and loosen em up. GL dude
 
yknot:
. Next option for an LDS for me is about 6 miles further. One owner there already has told me in no uncertain terms that for us to build a relationship I need to spend several thousand dollars in his store.

what kind of relationship did you have in mind?

Replacing o-rings is pretty standard for a VIP - particularly the Tank neck ring. a 200# cooldown isn't unusual - particularly from a warm fill to a cold lake.
 
rjchandler:
what kind of relationship did you have in mind?

Replacing o-rings is pretty standard for a VIP - particularly the Tank neck ring. a 200# cooldown isn't unusual - particularly from a warm fill to a cold lake.
I want the kind of relationship where we don't have to pretend that the internet doesn't exist and not the type that makes an LDS pretend that dive equipment is some type of black magic that a certified diver is too stupid to understand. I asked one shop about an equipment maintanance course and was told only after spending a lot of money. This same shop refused to move at all from retail price for a dry suit and this was after me telling them I would pay more than the online price, just not $600 more. It wasn't an issue with a shop laying out funds for inventory or anything else-it was a custom order, for a suit they don't inventory anyway, and I was going to pay cash upfront. $600 to lick a stamp isn't the kind of message successful businesses send. If replacing o-rings is standard than it should be included in the price. What would you say if an oil change didn't include the actual oil? As far as fill pressures, why should I settle for a hot fill? I was in no hurry. Hot fills are detrimental to an air tank anyway-I know this even if they don't know I know. The tank didn't read 200psi low in the water, instead it was on the beach before the dive. How about I leave with a tank 200psi high so as to have an honest fill at the time of the dive. The standard rant from the LDS's is that if everyone bought off the net and put them out of business then divers wouldn't have anywhere to get an air fill. Did the LDS's "invent" scuba diving? Where did divers get air from before there were LDS's?Any business that wants to subsidize one aspect with another, such as selling equipment at vastly inflated prices to cover the cost of a compressor is doomed to fail. Someone else will find a way to beat them in price and service for both. Gilboa Quarry is a good example of someplace that makes money from air fills without needing to sell equipment. I bet Leisure Pro does pretty well without selling air. In my industry we get almost no new business but instead rely on repeat business and customer service. If any new business does come in they get the same service and price considerations as our long standing customers-we can't afford to alienate anyone with poor preformance.
 
I too just had a bad experience at an lds....but I will not detail that here. There seems to be in most businesses...not just lds'.....a total lack of customer service knowledge. It seems to me they EXPECT you to come in and want to spend your
money with them and God never have the thought of going anywhere else. What I
call ''store arrogance" is getting pretty bad in my area. Ive owned my own business and people were loyal to me for many reasons....fair pricing, good service...out of the way service....my knowledge....they never paid for my mistakes in an order or performance....and I didnt nickle and dime them to death. If they asked for a discount and I couldnt give them one, I took the minute to explain in detail why. The business I was in had a terrible overhead and the profit margin was low. Most stores today just have no idea how to treat people......and they are staffed by people that just want the paycheck....and not have to perform to earn it.
rich
 
yknot:
How about I leave with a tank 200psi high so as to have an honest fill at the time of the dive.

Believe me, I completely understand your plight. I have steels which allow for a 10% overfill, and I never see 3000 psi, let alone my allowable 3300 psi.

However, as someone who can do airfills, I do know there is a book of rules & regs that you have to read, get tested on, and sign a form that says you'll comply with them. One rule is to never overfill a tank to greater than its working pressure, regardless of the situation.

I know that doesn't really help, but maybe it explains things a little better?

Eileen
 
eab-generally steel cylinders with a plus rating not only allow for an extra 10%, they demand it in order to contain the rated volume. When I have an 80cf tank at less than rated pressure I didn't get 80cf of gas. Part of my point with this thread is that the LDS's of the world sometimes fall back to scare tactics and misinformation rather than good old-fashioned customer service. Why do we need an annual inspection anyway? I don't believe that this is a government requirement, like a hydro. Don't blame it on liability. If a tank has been abused or filled with bad air looking inside only once a year may not be enough. How about this another way to get $10 out of the diver. If liability is the reason, consider that the shop in question has sold me a lot of gear and done fills previously and never once asked to see my 'C' card. I see a lot of threads on this board criticising what someone with poor skills did at a quarry or off a boat but in spite of this the vast majority make it back in one piece. Part of what this tells me is that while form and use may not agree with your personal standards, diving at recreational depths is pretty forgiving and the equipment is robust enough to stand up to a lot of abuse. If regulator rebuild kits were available over the counter (like brake shoes) and the knowledge to use them was wide spread, wouldn't that equate to a safer dive enviroment? What if half the people on your next liveaboard had the parts and skills to fix a problem? I think that part of why people jump to defend the LDS's is because they have developed a comradierie over time. In my part of the world, my friends will give me an honest fill, not charge $4 for two o-rings.
 
yknot:
Where did divers get air from before there were LDS's?

Fire Houses. Actually, it used to be that if you developed a relationship with them you might be able to get free air fills. The alternative is to pick up a CGA tank of Medical Grade Air from a gas supplier and whip fill yourself. So for stores to use this as an excuse is kind of funny to me.
 
Why do people feel shorted if they get a 200# underfill but never feel they should give the air back if they get a 200# overfill?
 
On my last VIP the shop handed me the new O-rings. They said that the o-rings were included in the price and the ones on my tank were perfect.

I don't think I would go back to a shop that wasn't happy with an extra $5 for a quick VIP and gouged me another $4 on o-rings.

You might want to look into forming a local club that would own a compressor. Then you could have the fills you want.
 

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