Jr O/W at 9, vs 10 yrs old.

[Gambitt]

Okay, very few details because I don't want to get anyone in trouble, but...

My son has been "diving" since he was 5 yrs old.. Started in our 4 ft. pool breathing off an octo, while Daddy swam along beside him.

A few years later, Daddy and Son, did a dive in Lake Ontario, again with son on an octo. 20 ft max, and he did perfectly. Even a "safety stop" at 10 ft, just to simulate the experience.

Next week, we head to Jamaica, and Son has the opportunity to do the Jr. Open water if they "agree" he's 10, instead of 9. He'll be using a smaller tank for the weight that he can easily manage.

I'm a Rescue Diver, who has helped on "cert dives" and have seen 20 yr. olds less prepared/taught to do the dives, and get a full OW. (No Supervision required)

Should I hold him back due to his age, or is his experience good enough to make up for 1 chronological year?

Opinions?

 

[Jim Ernst]

I feel you are making a huge mistake, You have already done what most of us do not recommend, Not attacking you my friend, But if you lie about his age, you are opening a huge door for Legal disaster if something happens!

Next ask Yourself something, Is he mature enough to handle the situations that could Arise, YOU have a medical emergency, Will he do what he is trained to do, Out of air situation, can he handle it?? Entanglement, Buddy separation, Gear failure, these are a few of the Many possibilities, Can he handle all of these???

You are not only Possibly risking your son at such an early age, But you, by lieing About his age, Well if disaster happens, You are very legally liable, And could face Prosecution for Child Endangerment/Manslaughter.

Remember, A Jr-Open water student MUST BE 10 yrs old !!

Just some of my Opinions!

Good luck on your decision!

 

[friscuba]

Think about this, "20 ft max" on an octo... 4 ft. for that matter... if your child gets separated from dad and doesn't perform a proper CESA on the way up, it could be the last thing you do with your child. Air embolisms have occurred in as little as one meter of water.

If the instructor is in on the "agree" portion of the deal, then you'd basically be putting your child in the hands of someone who's totally willing to break established accepted standards, what other level of care might they be willing to let slide?

Kids tend to think they are indestructible and often parents tend to fall into the same trap. Some people are willing to lie about or ignore age, health and other issues with their children because they want their child to have a good time. I've been nearly caught in the middle of it before... mom signed off on 13 and 11 year old kids having perfect health so they could do intro dives, while we're going through the lecture portion the 13 year old has a mini mal seizure... mom and the 11 year old are grinning and when the kid comes to the 11 year old says "there he is". Went on like it was no big deal "probably got too much sun yesterday". I canceled the boat outing immediately and urged the woman to get her kid to urgent care to be checked out. If it had happened 30 minutes later it would've been underwater and I shudder to think of the complications that could've arose. The mom was health care professional, should've known better.

I'd wait on instructing or diving with your child 'til he is old enough and put him in the hands of someone who's been taught how to instruct scuba. It's horrible to have a child hurt or worse, would you ever forgive yourselves if something unexpected happened and you knew you weren't following accepted standards?

 

[knotical]

Back in the day, a few kids scuba dived at 6 or so. But now we have rules.

So I'd be more concerned about the example you set for your son if you lie.

 

[Garrobo]

If the kid is nine years old plus 364 days he doesn't qualify. If he is 9 years old plus 365 days he does. What difference would that one extra day make? You have to take into consideration what the kid can and/or cannot do. Don't even think of the word 'mature'. No nine year old is mature. If I had your qualifications and with the present experience and abilities you son has he might be OK. But then there's the age qualification and legal ramifications thing as mentioned above. I'd definitely get him some training with a BC and tank so he could learn something about buoyancy, switching regulators, CESA, etc. before I let him jump off a boat into the ocean. Let him do some snorkeling and maybe sign him up for an introductory lesson in a pool and a couple really shallow reefs to get him acclimated to salt water. He'd like this I'm sure. Let him grow up a little. There's no rush. And remember, Jamaica isn't the United States. There are a lot of sham (half-a$$ed) operators down there and NO Coast Guard. It's a third world 'country'. You are on your own in an emergency.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I'm pretty sure there are no SCUBA laws that preclude a 9 yr old from diving. I had my son, under my arm and breathing from a 5 ft long octopus hose at the age of 8, in Maine and Florida. We stayed shallow, less than 12 feet.

Later, he learned to dive with a back pack and his own 30 cu-ft bottle.

However, I don't think I would lie to a dive operator about my child's age. Just seems like a dishonest and unfair position to put another person in. Do what you want with your kid, but being deceptive to other dive professionals is something I think I would avoid.

 

[Diver0001]

Should I hold him back due to his age, or is his experience good enough to make up for 1 chronological year?

Opinions?

Most kids at that age are just physically too small and some of the skills are very difficult for them. I had one who had to repeat the CESA something like 26 times for me in the pool before he could perform it to standards. Another one hit the wall on the first OW day because he couldn't tow his buddy on the surface in full gear and a bit of chop. He gave up. Yet another didn't make it past mod-5 of the theory because while he could perform table calculations "mechanically" he was completely unable to understand *why* he was doing it. Proper risk/dive-site assessment is exceedingly difficult for young kids too because they simply don't have the baggage for it yet.... etc etc. I could go on. IN short. It's questionable to certify young kids at all and younger than young.... forget it! Some kids do great in confined water, as you pointed out though. They often don't have the fear that adults have but in some ways they LACK a risk awareness that worries me a lot and for that reason I don't think most children should get into the sport too early.

You might be thinking I'm just a "scaredypants" but I attach a lot of value to the kids I train actually reaching adulthood. I guess if you're dead set on doing this then look for an 18 year old "bulletproof" instructor who drives his car 50 mph through a school zone holding a slurpee between his knees and texting his girlfriend with his free hand. That's the kind of person it would take to falsify documents so he can certify someone "almost 10".

R..

 

[joolz]

Many instructors -- myself included -- believe that even 10 is too young for JOW, regardless of whether the agency permits it. The rationale is that kids that age don't have the physical strength or emotional maturity to handle a rescue scenario involving a parent. This is especially true if the youngster is going to be diving in cold water with all the extra weight and bulky gear involved. Have you considered the seal team courses that are specifically designed for kids his age?

I would never recommend lying about your son's age just to cheat the system. For starters, any instructor who is willing to cut corners on such a fundamental standard can't be trusted to do everything else by the book either. Training children is something agencies don't treat lightly, and neither should the instructor. Do you really want your son being taught by someone motivated only by the prospect of a big tip? Second, since a birth date is required to process the certification, you will have to put your lie in writing. You won't be able to change it later...since OW is a prerequisite for pretty much everything, you'll have to lie about his age on every other certification with that agency. Third, while you have observed that he "did perfectly" while holding on to you and breathing from your octo, that doesn't necessarily translate into being a perfect OW diver in control of his own air and his own buoyancy. Can you predict exactly how he'll react if his mask floods during a dive and nobody is holding on to him? And of course there are all the liability issues -- compounded by the fact that you'll be in Jamaica -- but it's not in people's nature to consider the "what ifs".

One last thought: lying on an application in order to knowingly circumvent standards sets a terrible example. If you do this, you're forfeiting your right to lecture him when he gets a fake ID in high school