Trip Report JP Marine trip report (Brothers/Daedalus)

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moorish8idol

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JP Marine trip report – Brothers/Daedalus/[Elphinstone]

Hi folks! As promised, a little trip report from my recent trip to Egypt on the JP Marine. Hopefully this will be helpful as there wasn’t a lot of information about the boat on this or other fora. Overall, I would recommend this boat – the pros do outweigh the cons (for me), especially given the price – pretty good value. I will mention some of the hiccups along the way but you can decide whether it’s worth it for you or not!

Travel and transfers

I traveled direct to Marsa Alam with Tui NL – on time, comfortable and they have a generous carry-on allowance of 10 kg so I carried everything with me. Got my Egyptian visa ahead of time so skipped the visa lineup and got through the airport in a few minutes. My transfer driver was not there (admittedly I got through very quick) but some random taxi drivers waiting around called him for me and he showed up within 10 minutes. It was a 10 minute drive to the Port Ghalib marina and a 1 minute walk to the boat. Although check-in wasn’t until 5 pm, they happily welcomed me onboard around 2:30 and I joined a small group of guests that were halfway through a 2-week trip having done St John’s and the South the week before.

[On a side-note, I was a bit perturbed about our experience at the marina – our small group headed out to the small beach area in the marina for a swim and were told to “get out of the water” by security staff there saying that we had to pay to even swim there (we weren’t using the day beds or anything). Considering each person pays a $50 US extra fee to be docked at the marina in Port Ghalib, I found it quite bothersome that we were told we had to pay €10 to “use” the sea. Who owns the sea? Otherwise the marina area has a (non-authentic) souk where you can pick up souvenirs and last minute items (at a ghastly price – I paid €4,50 for a tiny bottle of body lotion) as well as a few restaurants that serve alcohol and sheesha.]

On our return, we were docked in the non-new “marina” area in Hurghada which was 8 km from the new marina area (Sheraton) and not particularly well-located. We were a bit confused at this but assumed the docking fees in Hurghada were high and the JP Marine didn’t want to pay them. It’s a €1-3 taxi (15 minutes) to the new marina area so after dinner, we stayed near the boat and walked down the street to where there are some restaurants and bars (area of the Hard Rock café). It’s a 15 minute ride to the airport.

I had heard a lot of negative things about what a nightmare Hurghada airport is with tons of security controls and long line-ups. Maybe I was lucky (though it was high season in August for European travelers and the end of Eid holidays) but the airport was cool, clean and quite efficient (yes the staff were surly but oh well). We had one initial security line-up to get to the check-in area and then another security check to get to the gate area. I flew Air Cairo direct to Copenhagen on the way back – they were on time and served a hot meal in the last 2 hours of the flight (though I found it weird that they had zero service before that, not even water!) and although my ticket said 8 kg max carry-on, no one weighed my bags or cared so I was able to keep my carry-on backpack with me on the way back as well. I was pleasantly surprised by the airline but the lady sitting next to me said that on the way down, the plane was delayed 8 hours (so they missed their first day of diving) and they had been served a measly dry sandwich.

Guests and crew

The boat was almost full – we had 26 divers, 2 dive guides and an Egyptian crew of 11. The guests were a really nice diverse mix of people, ages and nationalities: Brits, French, Italian, Swiss, German, Danish, Ukrainian, Russian, Turkish, Indian and Chinese! Although we had younger and old(er), most guests fell into the 30s and 40s demographic and I really enjoyed getting to know (almost) everyone! Many people on board were DMs and instructors with a lot of diving experience though, unfortunately there were a few people that weren’t very considerate divers and either due to carelessness or poor diving skills, had a tendency to be standing on top of coral and breaking off chunks every single time (and no they did not listen when repeatedly told not to do this sort of thing).

The crew were very hardworking and really friendly, doing everything they can to help you with anything you needed. There was always someone around to help you get in and out of your gear and I enjoyed using some of my (terrible) Arabic with them. Safety was clearly very important for them and their experience with diving the region was evident.

Cabins

Let’s say they are a bit rustic but functional. All cabins are twin with ensuite toilet/shower and air-conditioning. Crew does a brisk clean of the cabins each morning. You do not have your own climate control (you have to ask a crew member to adjust it for you) and it is shared between 2 cabins so you may have to come to a consensus between the 4 people as to how strong or low you want the AC. Beds were a bit small and narrow and we joked that they could use some seat-belts to hold those of us in that were in the upper-deck cabins (during the 3 nights we travelled). Lots of people slept outside in one of the myriad comfy areas – on the second floor deck, there is a shaded area full of beanbag chairs and the top deck is mostly sunny and runs the length of the boat with tons of comfy day beds to relax/sleep on.

Food and drink

Excellent! 3 meals a day were served buffet style but food was copious, varied and delicious – they definitely didn’t shy away from offering typical Egyptian food with each meal either (yum they served kibbe, foul, kushari). I had falafel and veggies for breakfast every day – lunch was always served with a delicious soup and there were usually 3 different types of salads, 2 sides (ie potatoes etc) and 2 main courses (meat, fish, curries, stews) as well as dessert. A mid-afternoon snack was also served and there was always coffee/tea/cookies for you to grab whenever. Vegetarians got on ok but the vegans did struggle a bit – it’s just not a concept the crew was very familiar with. But kudos to the chef – he really did a spectacular job the whole week.

The diviac website (and liveaboard) incorrectly state that you can purchase wine and beer on board. This is not true and luckily in correspondence with the boat in the week before, I learned that it was a BYOB boat OR you can put in an order with them ahead of time and then pay them in cash on arrival (500 ml local beer at €3 and local bottle of wine at €11). If you have time, best to bring your own as in the rush and confusion of things, not everyone got what they ordered (either the type or quantity of booze). Some people were unaware and so were upset that they had nothing to drink all week (we did share though!) and others were upset that they were asked to store their beer and wine in their cabins (other than what they needed that day) to conserve space in the small fridge.

[continued in post below]
 
Diving and guides

I think I am likely spoiled for the type and quality of diving I have done before, and tried to adjust my expectations accordingly, but I was still disappointed by the diving overall.

First off, our BDE route was reduced to BD. Generally the routes run Brothers-Daedalus-Elphinstone or vice-versa but after our first day of check dives, we headed out for a night of travel and woke up in Daedalus – without further explanation of why we had not traveled to Elphinstone. We never got a good reason (it was not for weather or unforeseen things – only that they had looked beforehand and saw 20+ boats booked into the Brothers at the beginning of the week and wanted to avoid the crowds – which was fair – but since we were returning to Hurghada, Brothers at the beginning of the week wouldn’t make sense anyway – and still doesn’t explain why we missed Elphinstone). We did 2 days at Daedalus and then the crew incited a lot of stress and arguments when they made the guests choose whether we would do 2 days at Brothers and then return to Hurghada or whether we wanted to do 1 day at Elphinstone and then only 1 day at Brothers (the majority chose 2 days at Brothers).

The last day of diving was extremely disappointing and again it was never explained why they chose to do 2 dives at Gouta Abu Ramada – a practically dead little reef that goes max 12 metres or so and where there is nothing to see (this would be a site you take OW students for their first dives). We asked to go to a more interesting dive site and were told simply “it is too hard”. So in a week, we only really got 4 days of actually liveaboard-style diving and 4 check-dives instead of 1 or 2.

Daedalus and Brothers were a bit underwhelming and to be fair, perhaps it was just bad luck combined with the really high sea temperatures (we had a group of Turkish divers on board that had done the same trip on the same boat the same week the year before and had seen tons of sharks on practically every dive). I have never seen so much bleached coral before and the fish life on the reefs was not particularly varied and not very big. I didn’t see any schools of fish or much of anything really! (again maybe I am spoiled after Tubbataha) We saw the most action at Daedalus (hammerheads and smallish oceanics both in the blue and under the boat) and the North plateau of Little Brother (again, hammerheads, oceanic white tips, grey reef). Conditions at Daedalus were mostly calm with some light currents – top conditions at the Brothers were quite rough (we ended up with some boring off-the-boat dives because morning conditions were too rough for the zodiacs to take us elsewhere) but currents were never as crazy as I had heard they can get (we had one or two dives where the current was between 2-3 knots at the most). Most people on board were a little underwhelmed and a bit bored at the diving.

We had very very early starts to the day with dive briefings at 5 or 5:30 a.m. They explained this was necessary to be the first people at a given dive site (this was rarely the case though) and the entire week, we never saw a single interesting pelagic creature or shark on our first early morning dive. In addition, top-side conditions were consistently the roughest early in the morning (improving throughout the day) so I was continually confused why we were getting up at 5 am when we could still reasonably fit in 3 or even 4 dives in during the day with a more reasonable start at 6:30 or 7. The only night dive of the week was on the first day at Abu Dahab – I skipped it and based on feedback from those who went, I missed nothing. We did get in one dusk dive however to fit in 4 dives on one day – otherwise it was 3 per day except the last day when we only did 2 (and both were wastes of dives).

Although we didn’t go to Elphinstone, guests that had been on board the previous week had gone to Elphinstone and said they saw “nothing” (ie no sharks or big guys). The DMs mentioned that no one was seeing much of anything at Elphinstone this season, perhaps because water temps are around 30 degrees.

The two DMs had quite different styles – one was very safety-conscious and kept a tight leash on his group, which is fair considering the conditions at BDE sites; the other one did a lot of lengthy deco dives to try and find sharks which meant that group saw more big guys but there were divers doing 20-30 minute safety stops due to deco diving which I am not particularly fond of on a LOB that is 10 hours from land [and yes the max depth here is 40 m but many people do not always respect that].

At the end of the day, the dive groups on this LOB are just too big. BDE is not really a region where you can go off with your buddy and surface on your own (due to the currents as much as the increased risk of problems with sharks like oceanics at the surface when you are not in a bigger group) and 13 (max 14) divers to one DM feels crowded and claustrophobic and also leads to a lot of time wastage in and out of the water (some people just don’t show up to briefings on time, don’t get ready very fast, take off in the water and make the group wait for them etc). The two groups were separated by 15 minutes or so to allow for more space for getting ready on the dive deck and so the first group could be dropped off by the 2 zodiacs and allow for them to return to get the next group – 4 DMs would obviously drastically improve the experience and probably reduce tensions but this is one of the reasons this is a more budget boat so I would not expect the 2 DM model to change.

Conclusion

Despite some of the drama and disappointment, I had a really good time on board and think this is a good budget option. I would be more disappointed if this were my only dive trip this year but I am heading to Socorro later on!

Pros
- one of the cheapest LOB in the Red Sea (we all paid €750)
- really good food!
- great crew - hardworking, friendly, always there to help
- nice mix of guests onboard
- spacious dive deck, lots of shaded and sunny spaces for relaxing and socializing

Cons
- with only 2 DMs and 2 zodiacs, dive groups are (too) big and it can get crowded
- last minute or uncommunicated changes to the itinerary without advance notice or reasoning (not going to Elphinstone without explanation, poor choice of last day dive site)
- organization and leadership a bit lacking at times (did not always keep to schedule due to guests not respecting briefing times, leading to waiting around a lot and even lost dives; also a tendency to try to "make everyone happy" and to democratize decisions leading to tension and arguments between guests)

On a final note, this should go without saying, but try to be kind and considerate! I was at times shocked at the behaviour of some of the guests - yelling at crew, constantly complaining, arguing with DMs about the dive sites planned.It kind of kills the good vibes when these things happen (a lot)... it never hurts to keep in mind that the crew are working hard to provide for themselves and their families, work really long hours, have varying abilities in English and come from a different cultural background - some kindness and understanding about these differences could go a long way!

Hopefully this report proves helpful for those considering this boat and route in the future - I'm happy to answer any questions
 
I just wanted to thank you for the trip report. I’m going in September and it’s good to know what to expect. I can also imagine that a lot of people have read this, given that it’s the cheapest option for BDE.
Thanks!
 
Really great TR Moorish!

I'm in the middle of planning a trip to the Red Sea...I'm definitely price-conscious & BDE is the route I'm considering, so you've given me A LOT to think about! Perhaps worth paying extra for a boat with fewer divers &/or smaller groups. Really sucks when you are on a boat with several obnoxious / inconsiderate divers, but that's just bad luck.
 
Diving and guides


First off, our BDE route was reduced to BD. Generally the routes run Brothers-Daedalus-Elphinstone or vice-versa but after our first day of check dives, we headed out for a night of travel and woke up in Daedalus – without further explanation of why we had not traveled to Elphinstone. We never got a good reason (it was not for weather or unforeseen things – only that they had looked beforehand and saw 20+ boats booked into the Brothers at the beginning of the week and wanted to avoid the crowds – which was fair – but since we were returning to Hurghada, Brothers at the beginning of the week wouldn’t make sense anyway – and still doesn’t explain why we missed Elphinstone). We did 2 days at Daedalus and then the crew incited a lot of stress and arguments when they made the guests choose whether we would do 2 days at Brothers and then return to Hurghada or whether we wanted to do 1 day at Elphinstone and then only 1 day at Brothers (the majority chose 2 days at Brothers).

The last day of diving was extremely disappointing and again it was never explained why they chose to do 2 dives at Gouta Abu Ramada – a practically dead little reef that goes max 12 metres or so and where there is nothing to see (this would be a site you take OW students for their first dives). We asked to go to a more interesting dive site and were told simply “it is too hard”. So in a week, we only really got 4 days of actually liveaboard-style diving and 4 check-dives instead of 1 or 2.


We had very very early starts to the day with dive briefings at 5 or 5:30 a.m. They explained this was necessary to be the first people at a given dive site (this was rarely the case though) and the entire week, we never saw a single interesting pelagic creature or shark on our first early morning dive. In addition, top-side conditions were consistently the roughest early in the morning (improving throughout the day) so I was continually confused why we were getting up at 5 am when we could still reasonably fit in 3 or even 4 dives in during the day with a more reasonable start at 6:30 or 7. The only night dive of the week was on the first day at Abu Dahab – I skipped it and based on feedback from those who went, I missed nothing. We did get in one dusk dive however to fit in 4 dives on one day – otherwise it was 3 per day except the last day when we only did 2 (and both were wastes of dives).

Seems like there's a lot of that going on on other boats as well, I've experienced it on different boat a few months earlier and it really put a damper on my holiday.
At our first briefing the guides dropped the bomb of the new park directive not allowing boats to overnight at Brothers. I booked shortly before the trip so I can't but think the booking agent (in Egypt) didn't mention it for a reason.

We too had rough seas and high winds which got some of the guests seasick, they pressured the guides into staying put at Daedalus 2 days into the trip. The guides "played" the 'democracy game' in letting people vote whether to stay or go, quite underhanded and didn't wash with me but he shouldn't have put any of us in that position to begin with.
Most of the divers on the boat were air hogs going through their 15L tanks much sooner then I hit 100 bars with my 12 L. that meant we all had to group up and head out to the blue for the safety stop regardless of air consumption or NDL.

Our last 2 dives were also at a shallow site with bad visibility but a nice colourful reef and a large turtle.
In general I was highly annoyed at the guides for not putting a stop to certain guests with a habit of touching and petting fish and other creatures.

Interestingly enough I shared a transfer with people who were on the JP Marine and got the impression they had a much better experience then I did.

I'm curious to hear where the boat was moored on your trip between day 1 and day 2 on Brothers because I'm thinking of going again is late September.

Cheers.
 
Diving and guides

I think I am likely spoiled for the type and quality of diving I have done before, and tried to adjust my expectations accordingly, but I was still disappointed by the diving overall.

First off, our BDE route was reduced to BD. Generally the routes run Brothers-Daedalus-Elphinstone or vice-versa but after our first day of check dives, we headed out for a night of travel and woke up in Daedalus – without further explanation of why we had not traveled to Elphinstone. We never got a good reason (it was not for weather or unforeseen things – only that they had looked beforehand and saw 20+ boats booked into the Brothers at the beginning of the week and wanted to avoid the crowds – which was fair – but since we were returning to Hurghada, Brothers at the beginning of the week wouldn’t make sense anyway – and still doesn’t explain why we missed Elphinstone). We did 2 days at Daedalus and then the crew incited a lot of stress and arguments when they made the guests choose whether we would do 2 days at Brothers and then return to Hurghada or whether we wanted to do 1 day at Elphinstone and then only 1 day at Brothers (the majority chose 2 days at Brothers).

The last day of diving was extremely disappointing and again it was never explained why they chose to do 2 dives at Gouta Abu Ramada – a practically dead little reef that goes max 12 metres or so and where there is nothing to see (this would be a site you take OW students for their first dives). We asked to go to a more interesting dive site and were told simply “it is too hard”. So in a week, we only really got 4 days of actually liveaboard-style diving and 4 check-dives instead of 1 or 2.

Daedalus and Brothers were a bit underwhelming and to be fair, perhaps it was just bad luck combined with the really high sea temperatures (we had a group of Turkish divers on board that had done the same trip on the same boat the same week the year before and had seen tons of sharks on practically every dive). I have never seen so much bleached coral before and the fish life on the reefs was not particularly varied and not very big. I didn’t see any schools of fish or much of anything really! (again maybe I am spoiled after Tubbataha) We saw the most action at Daedalus (hammerheads and smallish oceanics both in the blue and under the boat) and the North plateau of Little Brother (again, hammerheads, oceanic white tips, grey reef). Conditions at Daedalus were mostly calm with some light currents – top conditions at the Brothers were quite rough (we ended up with some boring off-the-boat dives because morning conditions were too rough for the zodiacs to take us elsewhere) but currents were never as crazy as I had heard they can get (we had one or two dives where the current was between 2-3 knots at the most). Most people on board were a little underwhelmed and a bit bored at the diving.

We had very very early starts to the day with dive briefings at 5 or 5:30 a.m. They explained this was necessary to be the first people at a given dive site (this was rarely the case though) and the entire week, we never saw a single interesting pelagic creature or shark on our first early morning dive. In addition, top-side conditions were consistently the roughest early in the morning (improving throughout the day) so I was continually confused why we were getting up at 5 am when we could still reasonably fit in 3 or even 4 dives in during the day with a more reasonable start at 6:30 or 7. The only night dive of the week was on the first day at Abu Dahab – I skipped it and based on feedback from those who went, I missed nothing. We did get in one dusk dive however to fit in 4 dives on one day – otherwise it was 3 per day except the last day when we only did 2 (and both were wastes of dives).

Although we didn’t go to Elphinstone, guests that had been on board the previous week had gone to Elphinstone and said they saw “nothing” (ie no sharks or big guys). The DMs mentioned that no one was seeing much of anything at Elphinstone this season, perhaps because water temps are around 30 degrees.

The two DMs had quite different styles – one was very safety-conscious and kept a tight leash on his group, which is fair considering the conditions at BDE sites; the other one did a lot of lengthy deco dives to try and find sharks which meant that group saw more big guys but there were divers doing 20-30 minute safety stops due to deco diving which I am not particularly fond of on a LOB that is 10 hours from land [and yes the max depth here is 40 m but many people do not always respect that].

At the end of the day, the dive groups on this LOB are just too big. BDE is not really a region where you can go off with your buddy and surface on your own (due to the currents as much as the increased risk of problems with sharks like oceanics at the surface when you are not in a bigger group) and 13 (max 14) divers to one DM feels crowded and claustrophobic and also leads to a lot of time wastage in and out of the water (some people just don’t show up to briefings on time, don’t get ready very fast, take off in the water and make the group wait for them etc). The two groups were separated by 15 minutes or so to allow for more space for getting ready on the dive deck and so the first group could be dropped off by the 2 zodiacs and allow for them to return to get the next group – 4 DMs would obviously drastically improve the experience and probably reduce tensions but this is one of the reasons this is a more budget boat so I would not expect the 2 DM model to change.

Conclusion

Despite some of the drama and disappointment, I had a really good time on board and think this is a good budget option. I would be more disappointed if this were my only dive trip this year but I am heading to Socorro later on!

Pros
- one of the cheapest LOB in the Red Sea (we all paid €750)
- really good food!
- great crew - hardworking, friendly, always there to help
- nice mix of guests onboard
- spacious dive deck, lots of shaded and sunny spaces for relaxing and socializing

Cons
- with only 2 DMs and 2 zodiacs, dive groups are (too) big and it can get crowded
- last minute or uncommunicated changes to the itinerary without advance notice or reasoning (not going to Elphinstone without explanation, poor choice of last day dive site)
- organization and leadership a bit lacking at times (did not always keep to schedule due to guests not respecting briefing times, leading to waiting around a lot and even lost dives; also a tendency to try to "make everyone happy" and to democratize decisions leading to tension and arguments between guests)

On a final note, this should go without saying, but try to be kind and considerate! I was at times shocked at the behaviour of some of the guests - yelling at crew, constantly complaining, arguing with DMs about the dive sites planned.It kind of kills the good vibes when these things happen (a lot)... it never hurts to keep in mind that the crew are working hard to provide for themselves and their families, work really long hours, have varying abilities in English and come from a different cultural background - some kindness and understanding about these differences could go a long way!

Hopefully this report proves helpful for those considering this boat and route in the future - I'm happy to answer any questions

Thanks so much for such a thorough review! We're doing our final considerations for our LOB in March 2020, and the JP Marine is one of two boats we're considering for the Brothers/North route. Could you provide some thoughts on the safety of the boat? Was the safety briefing clear? Obvious that a crew member was up overnight? Smoke detectors? Given the couple of fires this year, it's one our mind a bit more. Thank you!!
 
Thanks so much for such a thorough review! We're doing our final considerations for our LOB in March 2020, and the JP Marine is one of two boats we're considering for the Brothers/North route. Could you provide some thoughts on the safety of the boat? Was the safety briefing clear? Obvious that a crew member was up overnight? Smoke detectors? Given the couple of fires this year, it's one our mind a bit more. Thank you!!

Admittedly, I was not as conscious 1.5 years ago when I went on this boat as I would be now after the horrific fires in California and on the Red Sea Aggressor. I will definitely be asking more questions and checking things out myself on LOBs in the future.
That being said, I have no recollection of the safety situation or whether there were smoke detectors. We certainly never tested them and I only recall the standard safety briefing on the first day which would have been limited to procedures for evacuating a sinking boat and nothing in regards to fire. The JP Marine has a bunch of cabins down in the hull and then the other half of the cabins on the 2nd floor up, all with doors to the outer deck of the boat. The basement cabins are interior and you normally walk up a twisting staircase to get into the dining room/lounge - I have no idea where/whether there was an alternate evacuation route from there. I was placed in an upper deck cabin and many many people slept outside on the upper decks including crew (AC was set by the crew and shared by 2 cabins so some people slept on deck because they were on the losing end of a temperature battle in their cabin). There was never a discussion about a night watch crew member but we traveled nearly every night on the trip except for 2 - the one night at Daedalus and the one night at Brothers (which you can't do anymore so I can only guess you might be traveling even more) - so the boat would have been motoring for the better part of most nights (on a side note, I wish I had had a seat belt strapping me to my bed as the night routes were generally pretty rough).
I should also mention that while the boat was quite comfortable for our budget-purposes, it was in need of some basic maintenance in the cabins. I would suspect this could translate into other areas of the boat in terms of safety, fire detectors etc. Our cabin was rather worn and most days I would get stuck inside the head as the door would get jammed shut (I would put a towel in to prevent it from closely entirely but then the boat would swing in one direction and the door would slam shut; or the housekeeping would close it tight during the day) - each time it was a 15 or 20 minute struggle to force the door open - not very safe IMO.

It might be worth reaching out to them now to ask your questions and to make a decision based on how satisfied you are with their answers. I would also recommend reserving a bunk on the upper decks as those appear to be safer in the event of fires.
 
Bit late to the party, but wanted to add outstanding trip report with a lot of practical info. on the day-to-day, step-by-step logistics that are a real barrier and can be a nasty surprise to 1st timers traveling to many destinations.

Any thoughts on whether English-only speakers would be comfortable going on such a trip, or would they run into problems? Not just the boat, but onboard planes, switching flights, at the marina, a hotel if you get there a day or two early to make sure you reach the boat with gear, etc...?

Richard.
 
Bit late to the party, but wanted to add outstanding trip report with a lot of practical info. on the day-to-day, step-by-step logistics that are a real barrier and can be a nasty surprise to 1st timers traveling to many destinations.

Any thoughts on whether English-only speakers would be comfortable going on such a trip, or would they run into problems? Not just the boat, but onboard planes, switching flights, at the marina, a hotel if you get there a day or two early to make sure you reach the boat with gear, etc...?

Richard.
On the JP Marine there were a lot of English-only speakers and seemed to get along fine. The Egyptian crew tended to speak English in addition to Arabic. The Russian speakers were out of luck if not for a bilingual Ukrainian along who translated for them. The boat left from Marsa Alam and finished in Hurghada. Both cities are super touristy destinations and you should have little to no problem getting around those places with English whether at a hotel resort, taxi, airport or restaurant/bar. I speak enough Arabic to get by but I don't speak Egyptian dialect and we still managed to understand each other for the most part!
 

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