In what position were you taught to perform dive skills?

[chrpai]

I did my OW and AOW in Jamaica in swim trunks. I have pictures of me swimming around in a puddle jacket horribly overweighed and at a 45 degree trim.

The skills were done over in the sand and firmly planted on knees.

 

[Gunrock]

I had no idea this was an issue of any kind. I don't recall how we did it in my OW class but in all of the training/assisting I've done recently the students are on their knees. I didn't hear any complaining but this is all either in a pool or on sandy bottom. Personally I have always chosen to wear a full wetsuit and would recommend the same to anyone getting certified. A few scrapes against coral in Okinawa convinced me that this is a necessity even in warm water.

I can understand the arguments against being on your knees but after assisting with OW it's also easy to see why this works for the instructors, especially with a big group of 8-12 students. Having the students negative and on their knees gives them a good field of view and also keeps them in one spot in the surge. We still had issues with students bobbing and drifting into each other in the ocean but I think this minimized it.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I learned on my knees then saw a YMCA class do it hovering, in trim, horizontal from day one. And that is how I teach my students. Kneeling is stressful for students. They keep wanting to tip over, fall sideways, etc. Planting them on the bottom is good for the instructors who can shorten classes, does not require the instructor to have good buoyancy and trim skills themselves, and allows them to push the ratios to maximize profits. Screw the fact that students have no idea that they are messing up whatever life may be in the sand, creating poor vis, and don't even look like divers.

The way to minimize problems with control over students is to reduce the number of students in the water with each instructor. Not planting them. That's just getting em in and getting em out. And don't take them into OW before they are really ready.

 

[guruboy]

I was taught on my knees in the pool and then on a platform.

I don't know that I would have been able to achieve stable horizontal trim during my OW class. I'm still working on getting my trim correct even now.

 

[toddthecat]

I was taught on knees when I first certified. I've experimented with teaching different ways and have seen a noticeable difference in how fast students learn neutral buoyancy when in a fin-pivot position vs on the knees. I teach in a fin-pivot position always now because students seem to figure out neutral faster that way.

 

[archman]

Where is the polling option for "zero viz, grappled to a jetty piling while the tide rushes out"? Ha ha.

This explains why I was a sucky diver for so long...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I was taught on my knees ... as I think most people are.

As an instructor, I start people out that way in the pool, progress from there to the fin pivot position, then progress from there to doing all skills while hovering.

Checkout dives, with all the heavy neoprene (or drysuit), and weight, is somewhat a repeat of that progression. I expect my students, by the end of OW checkout dives, to be able to perform all skills without touching the bottom.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I was taught on the knees. That's how I was told to do it during my divemaster training. That is all I saw when I was a divemaster and an assistant instructor. That is how I did it when I first became an instructor.

Today my students are never on their knees. They are in a horizontal position while neutrally buoyant for the initial skills.

It is much more comfortable for them.

It is much easier to do the skills that way.

It is much more realistic (dive-like) to do the skills that way.

It is easier to maintain control of them that way--a kneeling student has only got to straighten the legs to rocket toward the surface.

As the pool class continues, the students do all the more advanced skills while neutrally buoyant.

At the end of the pool session, students have much more control of their buoyancy and look much more like seasoned divers than they used to look after the OW dives.

 

[mathauck0814]

I was definitely taught the fin pivot technique, but I don't recall there being a ton of emphasis for getting off the bottom until long after I had been diving and got out of the recreational courses. I try to teach as much midwater as possible and emphasize no contact with open water students. I have more success with some than others.

 

[beanojones]

You did your drills STANDING? I have never heard of that before.
.

I was going to say you missed a couple of options I have seen. Lots of skills standing, lots of skills sitting. I see a lot of instructors standing in the deep end of the pool, and kneeling in the shallow end, and I think the only reason one is done over another is the depth of the water for them.

The sitters are usually more free form and don't necessarily put divers in any set position. Sitting's just easy and stable (unlike kneeling or horizontal, which are unstable), so people can sit.

Interestngly, the new PADI blurb on the new PADI OW materials emphasizes teaching of skills in new positions. Strangely enough, Standing(!) is one of the new ways they are emphasizing as a possibility. I'd quote the article but it is direct to the instructor communication from PADI, and I don't want the dark overlords to shoot me down.

My own OW was kneeling, both in a pool and in the ocean, when doing skills.

My own OW I teach is all diving is done neutral, and in midwater, whether hovering or in motion. Skills are not separated from the activity of diving itself so they happen where the diving happens.

---------- Post added July 29th, 2013 at 07:22 PM ----------

I'm simply curious. I had a hard time on my knees in my AOW class, and ended up in a fin pivot (instructor thought I was narc'ed to pieces). I realized that on your knees isn't what I'd teach as an instructor, and not what I want my buddies to learn with. I had a long post explaining this, but the short story is I'm now retraining my fiancee so she can do simple skills from a horizontal position. It nearly got her in BIG trouble once (wall dive, 200+ft of water).

Yeah there's the A-HA! moment for many instructors who also work as guides when a fun diving customer gets water in their mask and has to search around for a sandy place on the bottom to kneel in to clear the mask, even if that sandy bottom area is 30 feet below where we are diving.

So I both get you, and would make the suggestion to everyone to practice skills only while actually diving, rather than stationary and on the bottom, regardless of position.

The change in buoyancy when for instance doing a mask removal and replacement is significant to the point that practicing while not swimming is basically not practicing it at all.