Ice Divers: Potential 'Advanced Ice Diver' specialty course

[lowviz]

Letting everyone know that there is a rare opportunity for anyone holding an ice card to take an advanced ice course.

This is truly an adventure in the Canadian boonies. Accommodations are on-site, travel logistics can be overcome. Trying to drum up enough interest so that the advanced course will be held. This is a very do-able course for anyone who has been under the ice, just more ice skills taken in unspoiled country.

Please post here if interested: Who is doing Ice Diving this season?

 

[northernone]

I've not heard of an advanced course for ice diving. Traverses? Pack ice? Staged dives? Deco?

I'll be away this winter and will miss out but would be interested how the advanced specialty cert differs from the skills needed to safely ice dive at all. If it's close enough to spring time I might be able to drop by on my way north to teach the kids.

Cameron

 

[lowviz]

As I understand it, it is about being proactive for issues under the ice.

Most basic ice courses are, well, basic. How to safely dive under the ice. This isn't a formal course, it is a 'Specialty' course. I've taken 'Ice Diving Search and Rescue Recovery Diver' from TeamLGS so I would suppose that this would be somewhat similar. Entanglement, disconnected diver, that sort of stuff...

 

[northernone]

As I understand it, it is about being proactive for issues under the ice.

Most basic ice courses are, well, basic. How to safely dive under the ice. This isn't a formal course, it is a 'Specialty' course. I've taken 'Ice Diving Search and Rescue Recovery Diver' from TeamLGS so I would suppose that this would be somewhat similar. Entanglement, disconnected diver, that sort of stuff...

Sounds like a good time! Those sort of things are important to prepare for.

Cameron

 

[Erich S]

Thought the advanced ID course was untethered?

 

[lowviz]

@abnfrog

Can you answer the untethered question?

With one way in and one tiny little way out, I have absolutely no interest in being untethered. Ever.

When I trained with the body recovery people, the first thing one's tender does is to duct tape your carabiner closed so that you can't disconnect.

 

[nadwidny]

If I was planning to do anything beyond what a basic Ice diving course offered i would spend my money on a cave course instead.

 

[lowviz]

BTDT, got the shirt.

Caves are boring, endless lifeless rock...

 

[abnfrog]

you NEVER go in untethered in my book

 

[chrisch]

The tether idea comes from public service diving. It is wrong headed in many ways. If you read the Walt Hendricks' book (ISBN-13: 978-0878148431) you can see the viewpoint of where this idea originated. Hendricks is highly critical of "recreational" ice diving courses.

Ice is an overhead environment that requires overhead training and techniques. I would argue that cave and cavern training already give the best way to tackle that issue. In respect of the issue of getting lost under ice (or in a cave) the diver is instructed in the use of line to mark the path in and out. A tether places the responsibility on a surface tender who is then erroneously seen as a "buddy" to a solo diver.

Clearly not many fatalities occur and so it is acceptable that the current system is not particularly dangerous and Hendricks' criticism (which which I agree) is over cautious. In truth most people do a course and never dive under ice ever again. It is a tick box exercise. Once you have seen under the ice in a featureless lake you have ticked the box.

For dives where the ice is simply a problem to be solved a different approach is needed. If this were to be an "advanced" ice diving course then I think it could be a good idea. However, it would be essentially a cave diving course with additional protocols and safety requirements for the more hazardous environment of ice. Ideally the training would be as rigorous and demanding as a cave course.

The first lesson would be to unlearn all the mistakes of the current ice training as it is delivered by all the recreational agencies.

The training and experience above water - cutting holes and so on - all seem to be OK and of value. Once in the water the diver is reliant on the surface support team to keep the hole open and to manage any problems. This is why tethering is used - the corpse of the drowned diver can be recovered by pulling on the tether. Additional training should really be targetted at making the diver more self reliant and able to deal with foreseeable issues. The elements are there already, we have perfectly good self reliant (solo) training and perfectly good cave (line work) training.

"Advanced" ice could reflect that if there were a need (and a market) for it. I doubt there is (which is a shame).

As the climate warms up there is less ice here and the lake we used to ice dive in regularly doesn't really freeze hard very often. A 2-3mm ice covering is weak enough that you can break it and doesn't therefore present the overhead hazard of thick ice. I am sure that in North America there are still some very thick ice coverings to be found. (Scandinavia too). Not my part of Europe though.

I would love to know the syllabus. Could be good or rubbish in equal measure. (Hopefully the former).