I need some help

[Rig Magician]

I am getting ready to get a camera and then a housing. I want the USVH housing, and I would like to go HD with a sony camera. I have found a good deal on a Sony HDR-HC5 for 565$ brand new in the box. Is this a good camera or should I posibly look at the HC7 or 9.
Could you tell me the pro or cons of this camera or the others listed.
Thanks,
Mark Carrere

 

[robint]

what kind of water are you diving in? What vis? Sunny clear Carib or cold dark lake? Are you going to also buy lights?

the HC-5 doesn't have as good a rating for low light as the other two, but from what everyone has said, none of them have great color in low light (HC-5, HC-7, don't know about new HC-9 but guess it is the same issue).

Just my 2cents.

robin

 

[volleygirl]

Not familiar with the housing but we have the HC7
and we really like it. Takes beautiful HD quality video.
Easy to operate.
We would highly recommend it.
We have the Ikelight housing and no as thrilled with that. We find it hard to see what you are shooting with its small window. Other than the small window, the housing has worked well.

Volleygirl

 

[marshallkarp]

I got the HC7 for a Christmas present from my wife and sent my housing back to Equinox for a retro-fit, so I am ready to go. Problem is, here in Ohio, I am looking at the weather and probably won't get to dive until the end of May. So no underwater video yet.

However, you can sample the topside HD PQ here:

Resurrection Sunday 2008 HD on Vimeo

I know, who wants to watch someone else's home video right. Anywho, I presented the question in November HC5 or HC7 and someone posted here that the HC5 should have, theoretically better low light performance, like for underwater, while the HC7 should have better above water performance. I don't understand the technical aspects behind this, but I guess someone else did.

It came down to what are you going to use it more for? For me, I take one or two exotic dive trips a year, so most of my video is topside, like my daughter will be getting married June 21.

Having said all that, if I could have gotten a new HC5 for $500 or $600 back then, I would have gone that route. Not only is it in range with SD cameras, you are going to be paying twice as much for the HC7. I think the price is a bargain. Hey, there is great risk (also great reward) for underwater (dropping them, flooding, getting wet) video cameras and the better the bargain you can get, really the better you may be.

Oh, one last thing the HC5 does not have mic and headphone jacks. If you need those, you need those, but you will be paying $400 to $500 just for those.

 

[diversteve]

someone posted here that the HC5 should have, theoretically better low light performance, like for underwater, while the HC7 should have better above water performance.

That's become somewhat clarified recently. camcorderinfo.com had posted this originally in March 2007: (note that the comparison is between the HC3 and HC7)

Sony camcorders with the 1/3” ClearVID CMOS typically performed very well in low light. Imagine our disappointment, albeit unsurprised disappointment, that HDR-HC7 performed so much worse than last year’s HDR-HC3. The reason is simple, but one that we see frequently repeated in cameras and camcorders. The Sony HC3 had a 1/3” CMOS with 2,103,000 pixels; the HC7 has a 1/2.9” CMOS with 3,200,000 pixels. When a manufacturer boosts the number of pixels on the same surface area (or in this case, an infinitesimally larger surface area), those pixels have to shrink. Smaller pixels mean a reduced ability to collect light. This is practically a golden rule of optics (though we've already seen the low-end Canon ZR850 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $265) buck that trend). While the overall resolution is increased (and boy, does that look good on the bullet point specs at Best Buy!), low light performance and color performance go down, and noise goes up.

And this:

At 60 lux, the HDR-HC7 looked considerably worse than the HC3, which was among the best low light performers of last year. We’re crushed to see Sony sacrificing something as crucial as low light for a boost in resolution. The picture was very grainy, and the colors had been compromised considerably. We ran the test over several times just to make sure we weren’t missing something. Sure enough, the difference in quality is evident. At 15 lux, the HC7 tried valiantly to retain some color, but the noise levels are tremendous.

But then more recently (Feb 08') they added this:

Update (Feb. 20, 2008):
We came across some unusual results when testing the HC7’s replacement, the HDR-HC9 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $265), which prompted us to retest the HC7. It became clear that a human error was made during testing. The Auto Slow Shutter feature, which is meant to be deactivated, was left on. When we retested the HC7 with the Auto Slow Shutter off, the results were interesting. On the whole, having the Auto Slow Shutter turned off hurt the low light score, especially the sensitivity test. The retest showed that the camcorder was able to achieve 50 IRE at only 17 lux. We reconfirmed that previous score of 7 lux could only be achieved with the Auto Slow Shutter on.
However, the color error and noise – recorded at 60 lux – actually improved with Auto Slow Shutter off. The retest scores showed a color error of 11 (versus 11.9 in the original test) and a noise score of 2.52% (versus 3.04% in the original test). Looking at the whole series of results, is appears that the Auto Slow Shutter is beneficial for very low light levels, but at moderate low light, it may be advisable to leave the Auto Slow Shutter off.

The whole review can be found here: Sony HDR-HC7 Camcorder Review - Sony HDV Camcorders

There's also an HDR-HC5 review for comparison: Sony HDR-HC5 Camcorder Review - Sony HDV Camcorders

 

[Rig Magician]

Thanks everyone for the help.
The setup will be used for our yearly dive trip, and on dive trips to the gulf of Mexico throughout the year. Mostly blue water, but the gulf can be nasty at times. Light penetration through the murk layer can be low at times. I don't plan on buying lights right away, but I may in the future if I need to. The housing comes with 2 color correcting lenes.
I am pulling up the review for the HC5 and read up on that.
As for the housing I read about it sometime ago on here and it had several really good reviews. I should hav bought one back when they were going for 1800$ as now they are 2300$ or so. I am looking for a housing with electronic controls and a back mounted monitor. It has both and only has 2 sets of o-rings. one for the lens port and one for the read door. I figured this would be better to limit flooding possibilties.
Again thanks for the help.

 

[diversteve]

I should have bought one back when they were going for 1800$ as now they are 2300$ or so. I am looking for a housing with electronic controls and a back mounted monitor.

You can get an Amphibico EVO HD Elite for that. H2OPhotopros or B&H both sell it for $2295. With monitor back - It's an aluminum housing, better depth rating, internal flip filter, external microphone...not sure if the mic works with the HC5 though unless Amphibico provides an adapter for the active interface shoe.

I like mine.

 

[Rig Magician]

I just got through looking at those also. I am still looking. I also looked at the light and motion and Seacam systems. The thing I like about the USVH is there is only 2 sets of o-rings and the controls are not sealed so it does not matter if they get wet. How does the Amphibico compare to the USVH? How many sets of o-rings does it have, and are the controls water sensitive.
Thanks for the help.

 

[diversteve]

I also looked at the light and motion

Bluefin or Stingray HD?

and Seacam systems.

I'm not a fan of them, I used to have an old Quest housing - Mr. Ivey worked there and uses a similar design - I found the joystick awkward to use. Too many functions on one control - I like buttons... Plus (at least on mine - early 2000 model) the zoom/tele was so slow you could count as it zoomed.

These are my subjective opinions.

I went through the same process you are 2 years ago. The three top-tier u/w consumer housing mfr's. are Gates, L&M and Amphibico. A step down in durability or depth rating are USVH, Ocean Images, Ikelite and Equinox. Because they all use a plastic/poly shell. A pro videographer once said "drop a poly housing - try to catch it, drop a Gates move your foot quickly..." I subscribe to that theory. I think I could stand on my Amphibico.

Metal housings also typically require less buoyancy compensation. My poly housing had a weight bag, my EVO has none (and it's still slightly negative) And although I'll never dive to 330' knowing the housing can means it's overengineered for 120'. I've read here somewhere of a diver who did almost 200' with (I believe) an Ikelite. Near the bottom the switches froze due to the pressure and it made one ominous cracking noise - he thought it had imploded. But it survived - Ikelite makes a good product. I just don't need that kind of drama.

The thing I like about the USVH is there is only 2 sets of o-rings and the controls are not sealed so it does not matter if they get wet. How does the Amphibico compare to the USVH? How many sets of o-rings does it have, and are the controls water sensitive

All I do with my Amphibico is blow a little water over the handles post dive. The controls are sealed and self-draining. The rear door is hinged with an extremely positive locking latch. The design is so precise that they only need one. Dual o-rings on the back door also with a tapered fit, I doubt it's ever going to leak. And a water intrusion alarm for further safety. I toggle the power on b4 I jump and it will go off if there's a problem - never has though. And I have jumped with the housing, don't think that's recommended with a Poly housing. I don't even know if the alarm works..lol

Nice thing about the Evo front port is that you can swap ports (Gates and others do also) with a minimum of fuss. Amphibico has 3, standard (55 degree zoom-thru), ultra wide angle (110 degree) and flat. And it has an internal flip filter, as I recall the USVH had an external slip on filter. Not that you'll be taking it off much but it's nice to not have to worry about stowing/scratching it underwater.

Basically in two years of use, what I've done is load the camera, lube the o-rings once during the week and shoot video. I've never had any electronic issues although I do recall someone posting here about a problem with their video monitor.

My Quest housing was a poly design like the USVH (which btw I seriously considered) and pictures on websites just can't show how much solider the Amphibico is. Especially for the same $$. It's not the best either, one of the limitations is no MWB control but I think if you contact USVH, you'll find that their electronics don't do that either with the HC-series cameras.

Even the L&M Bluefin has a manual control to push on the LCD. No one doing an HC5/7 electronic housing currently provides push-button MWB since Sony integrated the feature onto the touchscreen and didn't provide LANC control codes. Or if they did, no one's been able to reverse-engineer what they are.

I liked the L&M Bluefin also. But at the time it was $1K higher than the Amphibico and I didn't see a clear advantage. Maybe better glass. (unintentional bad pun..)

For the same $$ I'd buy the Amphibico again. USVH used to be $1900 when I paid $2700 for my EVO - at the time I almost bought USVH. You might check out Ocean Images also, I'd consider them direct competition with USVH.

If you do go USVH, buy their High Grade Lens...I've also heard USVH (Warren) provides outstanding customer service - Amphibico not so much. But I bought my housing through H2OPhotopros in SoCal and they do. Not that I've needed it.

hth,

 

[robint]

Ikelite housings are made for up to 200'.. Video Index
but I know with mine, I have been to 120' and the buttoms get pretty stiff. I wouldn't take the housing deeper than that as I never dive deeper than that.
I like that the housing is clear so I can see if there is any water in it, too. A friend has an alum body housing and even though it has an alarm, he has gotten on the boat and discovered a leak. Luckily was able to let it sit open for the rest of day and it dried out without ruining it! The Ikelite housing can't be ruined by a leak so if you ever get one (I can't imagine them leaking as the latches are so tight I sometimes can't even get mine open without help from my husband), anyhow the only thing that might be ruined is the camcorder.... so less $$$ loss.

My experiences with Ikelite company have been really good over the past 8 years! My first still camera rig was an Ikelite Auto35 film camera/housing/strobe package. We liked it so much we bought a second one. So you can say I am a loyal Ikelite owner. My current video rig is now 2+ years old and I will be replacing it soon.. and I will probably stick with Ikelite due to cost and customer service and the fact I like its simplicity.
I am a diver and good buddy first, photographer/videographer second.

Just my thoughts.

robin