How would you handle this?

[barada83]

So here's the scenario. You are diving with a buddy who is a newbie, and you aren't too experienced yourself, and you are just going on a quick orientation dive of the area. Your buddy seems to having some difficulty with staying at a consistent depth and is going up and down over a course of about +/- 10ft. You get his attention and ask if he is ok, he says he is so you continue. A few minutes later, he turns and gives you a thumbs up. You, not sure if he means go up or is unclear of signals return with an ok, which he returns. Following that you give the ascent signal which he returns. Assuming he wants to surface, you go to the surface. At the surface he asks you if everything is ok. You tell him you were wondering the same because he told you to go up. So you continue the dive. You go to a wreck and look at it for a few minutes and continue on at 40ft. You notice your buddy having trouble maintaining depth again. What would you do? I, at this point, asked him if he wanted to go up or down and he said down so I started descending again but he was having trouble following. So I gave him the up signal and surfaced. He rocketed way past me most likely due to an unvented BC. Is this the way to do it or are you supposed to help him get down again? He wasn't venting his BC which definitely wasn't helping with keeping him down. Just wondering for future reference.

 

[Sas]

So here's the scenario. You are diving with a buddy who is a newbie, and you aren't too experienced yourself, and you are just going on a quick orientation dive of the area. Your buddy seems to having some difficulty with staying at a consistent depth and is going up and down over a course of about +/- 10ft. You get his attention and ask if he is ok, he says he is so you continue. A few minutes later, he turns and gives you a thumbs up. You, not sure if he means go up or is unclear of signals return with an ok, which he returns. Following that you give the ascent signal which he returns. Assuming he wants to surface, you go to the surface. At the surface he asks you if everything is ok. You tell him you were wondering the same because he told you to go up. So you continue the dive. You go to a wreck and look at it for a few minutes and continue on at 40ft. You notice your buddy having trouble maintaining depth again. What would you do? I, at this point, asked him if he wanted to go up or down and he said down so I started descending again but he was having trouble following. So I gave him the up signal and surfaced. He rocketed way past me most likely due to an unvented BC. Is this the way to do it or are you supposed to help him get down again? He wasn't venting his BC which definitely wasn't helping with keeping him down. Just wondering for future reference.

Firstly I would, before the dive began, do a detailed plan of how the dive will progress. I.e. how long it will go for, what depths will the dive be at, hand signs, turn around pressure, etc. Also it should be very clear before the dive started how to ask 'should we ascend?' or demand 'I want to ascend now!'. When asking 'should we ascend?' I usually point to my buddy and do the thumbs up and wait til he responds and when I want to ascend myself I will point to myself and repeatedly do the thumbs up until he responds in kind. I discuss this on the surface before the dive with other buddies too so see what they prefer.

Even though you are both new divers, your buddy really should be able to use his BC correctly. If your buddy can't, tell him to practice in a pool until he gets the hang of it. Doing a rocketing ascent to the surface is never good and he should not be out in OW if he can't manage an ascent correctly. I watch new buddies carefully and have occassionally had to step in to manage their buoyancy, I just vent so I am quite negative and grab on to them and vent their BC until they are neutral. With new divers, the dive is usually spent watching them so I tend to notice trouble before it starts to occur. I also review their gear before the dive starts so I can locate the dump valves quickly. If it happens more than a couple of times with a large variation in depth I would call the dive (and have done in the past) - though often the problems are more serious on the final ascent so it becomes a bit late to call the dive. Usually what has happened is that me (or my regular buddy when diving in groups of three) has stepped in and just operated their BC until we surface.

Anyway, that is how I would handle it. Others might have better ideas as I am still pretty new too!

 

[rstofer]

By 'buddy' do you mean someone you know and will dive with again? If so, SASPOTATO has a reasoned approach.

While UW, I might practice a little buoyancy drill and perhaps write on a slate what I am doing in the hopes they would get the hint. Feign interest in perfecting your own buoyancy and hope for the best. If you are uncomfortable diving with your buddy, don't. The most dangerous thing in the ocean is your dive buddy.

If this is an 'instabuddy' you will never see again then just walk away. It's not your problem.

Richard

 

[Thalassamania]

So many divers today screw up confusing OK with surface that I always make sure they know the difference at the start of the dive.

 

[NudeDiver]

If this is an 'instabuddy' you will never see again then just walk away. It's not your problem.

True dive community spirit at work.

 

[StreetDoctor]

sounds like your buddy might be overweighted also...

 

[Andy077]

So many divers today screw up confusing OK with surface that I always make sure they know the difference at the start of the dive.

Sometimes the muscle memory is hard to break, for example, myself, I've been in the fire service for 14 years, and "OK" has always been the thumbs up, for lots of reasons, not the least of which is you can give the signal with a tool in your hand. when diving, i actively have to tell myself " Don't use thumbs-up, moron" and still catch myself in the process.

 

[Rick Inman]

... buddy who is a newbie, and you aren't too experienced yourself...

I'd dive a bunch and gain experience, both with this buddy and with other more experienced divers. I'd keep the level of diving restricted to the least-skilled diver's ability. The best part is that diving is fun, and lots more diving is the answer. If you and your buddy find more experienced divers to dive with, and you continue to train and learn, all the stuff about weighting and signals and buoyancy will work itself out. In fact, the description of your buddy describes many of us when we were new. Thank goodness my betters, and my peers didn't dump me back on the beach, but continued to dive with me so that I could progress.

 

[Ber Rabbit]

So here's the scenario. You are diving with a buddy who is a newbie, and you aren't too experienced yourself, and you are just going on a quick orientation dive of the area. Your buddy seems to having some difficulty with staying at a consistent depth and is going up and down over a course of about +/- 10ft. You get his attention and ask if he is ok, he says he is so you continue. A few minutes later, he turns and gives you a thumbs up. You, not sure if he means go up or is unclear of signals return with an ok, which he returns.

Make sure you review your hand signals thoroughly before the dive, the more you discuss what is expected after each signal the more pleasant your dives will be.

During the dive anytime you get that thumbs up start your ascent; it's not a question it's a statement even if it's not the statement the diver meant to make. Andy077 pointed out that thumbs up means "ok" in some jobs, he also pointed out he has to tell himself not to use that in scuba. Your buddy is new, he's going to continue mixing those signals up without some reinforcement and there may come a time when confusion about signals could result in injury. Practice with him and eventually he will do what Andy does and force himself to signal what he means but you may have to enforce the meaning of the signal he gives to make the learning take place. Keep your dives shallow and easy so surfacing to sort things out then continuing the dive if he didn't actually mean "up" poses less safety risk. There will probably come a point in his learning where he signals "up" and you return "up" then turn for the surface and he waves and shakes his head "no" (or something similar) to cancel what he just said then gives the correct signal.

You notice your buddy having trouble maintaining depth again. What would you do? I, at this point, asked him if he wanted to go up or down and he said down so I started descending again but he was having trouble following. So I gave him the up signal and surfaced. He rocketed way past me most likely due to an unvented BC. Is this the way to do it or are you supposed to help him get down again? He wasn't venting his BC which definitely wasn't helping with keeping him down. Just wondering for future reference.

Do a proper buoyancy check before your next dive, there are tons of threads around here describing how to do that. A buddy who is bopping up and down like a yo-yo early in the dive is not going to improve as the dive progresses, especially in any tank that becomes more positively buoyant as you use the air (Aluminium 80 comes to mind). Do some buoyancy practice at the beginning of the dive; find a downline to use as a way to stop any uncontrolled ascent/descent and just mess with getting neutral, it's an exercise that will benefit both of you.

It sounds like you two could use a little time with either an instructor or an experienced mentor for a little guidance. There are a lot of experienced people here on the board who regularly go out with newer divers and offer tips, see who's available in your area. Diving is the only way to get better at diving
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Ber Rabbit]

PS: I see you're in Chicago. Find pp02 diver here on the board, he's Duane from Precision Diving. He's a VERY patient instructor. See which of his classes he recommends for someone at your level or see if he would be willing to put on a workshop for you and your friends, it will be money well spent. I wish he lived closer to me but he did drive 5 hours to put on a class for some friends and I.
Ber :lilbunny: