How to vet a dive shop

[Heatheroe]

I'm sure this has been asked before, sorry I didn't search first. My sister has suddenly decided she is interested in diving. She found a shop about 45 minutes from here and we went together and watched a video about it. I was able to speak with the shop owner but not an instructor. I have several more questions and would like to speak with an instructor directly. The shop has their own indoor heated pool.

About me: I've been diving several times before but am not certified. Several years ago I attempted to get certified with the local shop in my town and it was a disaster. Search my posts if you're interested in the back story but bottom line, it was not my fault. So to say I'm a little gun shy is an understatement.

This past weekend my sister did a discover scuba class at the shop but didn't think it was a good idea that I tag along for some reason. She went ahead and signed up for classes on Saturday. There was apparently a discount that ends 12/25/19 and the shop is now closed for the holidays.

Sorry to be so long-winded but after some family drama and pressure to sign up I am just not sure what to do given my past with a not so great dive shop.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

 

[Marie13]

Have you searched FB, Yelp, or Google for reviews on said dive shop?

 

[Esprise Me]

Is your plan to try to get in on the class starting this Saturday? I agree talking to the instructor who will be teaching is the way to go, and we could maybe suggest some questions to help avoid the issues you had before if you could tell us a little more about them.

I didn't find Yelp very useful here. Most people who've just gotten certified aren't really in much of a position to evaluate the quality of instruction because they have nothing to compare it to.

 

[Marie13]

Is your plan to try to get in on the class starting this Saturday? I agree talking to the instructor who will be teaching is the way to go, and we could maybe suggest some questions to help avoid the issues you had before if you could tell us a little more about them.

I didn't find Yelp very useful here. Most people who've just gotten certified aren't really in much of a position to evaluate the quality of instruction because they have nothing to compare it to.

Yelp may tell you if people had bad experiences. It’s worth a shot.

 

[aviator8]

Ask them if the teach skills on your knees at the bottom.

 

[formernuke]

This is weird. I did my open water at a shop because someone told me go here. I didn't meet the instructor before.

I talked to the shop closest to me and the owner was kinda (ok not kinda) a dick.

I did my open water with the first and then later (much, much later) realized he was just after the money and sales.

Short time later I was advised to take a class at the dick owners shop, I did so. Turns out he is a cave diver and one of the best trainers in New England. I learned a lot from him and wished I would have started that way instead of having to correct my past instructions.

Ask, do they overweight there students, do they teach bouyancy control?

No one can make a master diver in a OW class but they can lay the foundation.

@The Chairman can give more information as what is good instruction.

 

[Neilwood]

It is not really the shop but the instructor that is important.

Having a chat with the instructor can really help even if for no other reason than to get a handle on their character. I started my course and the first hour was just chatting to the instructor (who had gone to University in my home city) and relaxing. Spending that time was invaluable as I was really relaxed by the time the confined and OW dives came around.

 

[arbby]

I would say let your sister take the course then you have her feedback whether to go there.

 

[The Chairman]

but didn't think it was a good idea that I tag along for some reason.

You're not certified. You would have had to take the class with her and not just tag along.

@The Chairman can give more information as what is good instruction.

I am not the last word on adequate or good vs excellent instruction: YOU GUYS ARE! But, since I've been asked, here is my two cents on what to expect:

The vast majority of shops give "adequate" instruction. You learn Scuba in a traditional manor (kneeling) with up to 8 students and all the standards are kept and all the skill boxes are checked off. You may, or may not know when to use your skills or feel comfortable and ready to go diving on your own. This is usually a few hours in the pool and 4 or 5 dives over two days. An overly aggressive shop will do the pool one morning, two checkout dives in the afternoon and finish up the class the next day. Quite often these guys appear to be the cheapest and quickest, but there are often add-ons and you'll probably need more training to be able to dive on your own. They often claim efficiency, but I don't see it. This is how I got certified.

Good instructors will probably do two or more half days in the pool and make the effort to get you neutral before open water. They make sure you've actually mastered skills, know when to use them and won't take shortcuts. You're more likely to be comfortable in the water and ready to go have some great adventures.

Great instructors will never let you kneel, sit or stand on the bottom during any portion of the class. The class sizes are limited to 4 or less rather than the traditional 8 so they won't waste your time. They always set a great example in the water for you to follow and have developed great insights into identifying and correcting bad habits before they get ingrained. They adapt the class to meet your needs and desires not only in how you learn your skills, but also in the length of the class. While they may not take anymore time than the "good" class, you'll come away with exceptional trim, buoyancy and propulsion. You'll not only be comfortable, but you'll be confidant to go dive and have fun within your limits. They do cost more, but they are more than worth it.

If you want a good or great instructor, just ask here on ScubaBoard. The community knows who's adequate, good or freakin' phenomenal. Yes, you should talk to your potential instructor, but if they're anything like me, they don't believe that their poop even stinks. Try to talk to their students and find out how many pool sessions and their training philosophy. If price is your bottom line, then you deserve crappy, er adequate instruction.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I get this question quite often and have addressed it here before. I have a list of questions I recommend students ask. Two sets actually. One for the shop and one for the instructor. Both can be found in my book but to not run afoul and get accused of shameless self-promotion here are the basic questions. If you want more details on each, that's in the book. There's too much to post it all here.
For the instructor:

1. “When did you become an instructor?”
2. "Have you had any large gaps in your teaching career? How recently? How many courses have you taught in the past year?"
3. “What is your certifying agency?”
4. “How much time is required for the course?”
5. “How large are the classes?”
6. “What equipment do you provide and what do I as the student need to supply?”
7. “Is your class schedule set or flexible?”
8. “Do you teach skin diving skills?”
9. “What methods do you use to teach proper weighting?”
10. “What methods do you use to address the panic cycle?”
11. “Do you teach students to perform skills in a horizontal position from the beginning of the class?”
12. “Will I have time to just swim and practice the skills we learn?”
13. “Can I sit in on a class or pool session?”
14. “What methods do you use to teach buoyancy and trim?”
15. “How much time will I get to practice these skills?”
16. “Do you dive with students after class has ended?”
17. “Where do you do your checkout dives?”
18. “How many places have you been diving?”
19. “When was the last time you were diving?”
20. “How often do you dive for fun?"

For the shop there are different ones.

1. “How long have you been in business?”
2. “What brands do you regularly carry and do you service them in-house?”
3. “If I have a brand that you don’t carry, can you service it or tell me where to get it serviced?”
4. “If I want an item that you don’t have in stock or a brand that you don’t carry, can you get it or will you refer me to somewhere that I can get it?”
5. “What agency or agencies do you offer certification through?”
6. “Can I choose my instructor?”
7. “Where do you hold classes?”
8. “Who sets the class schedule?”
9. “How big are the classes?”
10. “Are your instructors allowed to give more time to individual students if they need it?”
11. “What items are included in the costs of the class?”
12. “What type of rental equipment do you have and will it be what I use for my checkout dives?”
13. “Do you offer local diving opportunities?”
14. “What types of trips do you offer?”
15. “Do you support or recommend any dive clubs?”
16. “Do you offer discounts on equipment and trips to students and regular customers?”
17. “May I have the names of divers you have trained, as references?”
18. “What sets you apart from other shops that would make me want to train with you?”

The important thing for anyone to remember is that you're not choosing a toaster. You are hiring an employee to provide you with instruction. You are paying them to teach you how to safely have fun underwater. It's serious business. People have died on discover type dives and on OW checkouts. They've been scared out of their wits in the pool by incompetence and being pushed too hard too fast.

Some of these are really no different than questions you would ask any salesperson about a large ticket item. If you have any knowledge of diving you'll be able to come up with the answers to others you'd like to hear.
I have my own answers I want to hear from them. Those are in my first book which you can get on amazon. Or from me personally. I always have a few copies on hand.