Hopefully a new training question

[Sideband]

What would be a good way to go about practicing some of the OW skills, such as OOA and the like? I am looking for something more than just planning a dive to go down and signal ooa to each other. I may be wrong, but I don't see the real benefit of stopping, turning towards each other, then giving the signal, etc. when it is all planned. That was fine in OW class to learn the procedure but now it just seems like going through the motions. It's kind of like training a dog to sit and stay in your living room, then taking him out to a park full of squirrels with no leash. Will he obey there as well as at home?
I am going to be in the water a LOT this weekend and will have a chance to try some of the suggestions if there are any.
Any ideas on this?

Joe

 

[MyDiveLog]

You and a buddy agree to work on skills during a dive ... but NOT on the time/place/depth, or even on who plays what role. I'd probably stop short of anything truly life-threatening, like turning off a buddie's air or ripping the reg. from their mouth, etc.

I applaud you for wanting to work on the skills in a real world setting ... not enough divers practice them at all.

 

[theskull]

I agree with MyDiveLog, but would not even specify on which dive, just that some OOA events are to take place during the weekend. It shouldn't matter whether you are expecting them or not, or whether they are real. When confronted with an OOA diver the response should be smooth and immediate. Once the reg has been donated, THEN the OOA diver can signal OK and show his pressure gauge before handing the reg back to his buddy to continue the dive, assuming it was just a practice drill.

theskull

 

[Albion]

I think you should expect the unexpected, be prepared (or at least know what to do), when soemone snatches a reg out of your mouth! I have not experienced it or seen such an event yet but from the actual incidences i have read of this is most likely the case. OOA , high anxiety / stress levels, you dont have time to give a nice clear OOA if you are already OOA, its give me some air and NOW.

Ok so you and your buddy go through the drills you monitor eachothers air supply, but what if a third diver enters the scenario, lost from their own buddy and sees you swimming along, bam you are the target.

Best solution is either to use a bungied backup under the chin, or a inflator style regulator, both are easy to locate in this event.

(please no flames about the second choice, they work ok)

 

[herman]

There actually is a lot of benefit in doing the skills like you describe. When the crap hits the fan, people tend to revert back to whatever they were trained to do. Make them do it over and over and when the time comes and no one is thinking the old training kicks in. In the past, when doing firearms training a lot of agencies did a drill that involved drawing the gun, fire twice and return to the holster. This ended up getting people in the real world hurt because in a tense situation, they reverted to their training....yep draw, fire 2 time and back in the holster, trouble was the bad guys did not train by the same rules. In the DIR-f class, the value of repetitive practice was highly stressed. Do the drills, they can't hurt.

 

[jbd]

What would be a good way to go about practicing some of the OW skills, such as OOA and the like? I am looking for something more than just planning a dive to go down and signal ooa to each other. I may be wrong, but I don't see the real benefit of stopping, turning towards each other, then giving the signal, etc. when it is all planned. That was fine in OW class to learn the procedure but now it just seems like going through the motions. It's kind of like training a dog to sit and stay in your living room, then taking him out to a park full of squirrels with no leash. Will he obey there as well as at home?
I am going to be in the water a LOT this weekend and will have a chance to try some of the suggestions if there are any.
Any ideas on this?

Joe

ckharlan66 and I used to do this quite often. At first we did the face each other give the signal and do the skill(whatever it was). After awhile it just became an understood thing between us that without any other notice we would spring a scenario at any time on any dive. This included turning off each others air as stealthily as possible. In the end even this became old hat which is what you want. Just start slow and work your way up.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

As you continue with your dive education, you will receive additional training with an instructor in these emergency situations. Keep diving but KEEP TRAINING AND WITH A PROPER INSTRUCTOR.

You might want to consider the DIR Fundamentals classes. Other than some basics, this class goes over exactly what you are speaking about. Other agencies have some equivalent, however, before learning bad habits and diving with them for years, this is a good class to take so that you can go out in the world and gain experience after a solid foundation.

 

[Sideband]

ckharlan66 and I used to do this quite often. At first we did the face each other give the signal and do the skill(whatever it was). After awhile it just became an understood thing between us that without any other notice we would spring a scenario at any time on any dive. This included turning off each others air as stealthily as possible. In the end even this became old hat which is what you want. Just start slow and work your way up.

As you said, you had an understanding with your partner. I, on the other hand would never have such an understanding. Without presuming to tell you what to do or not to do, I am firmly against messing with someones air. I won't mess with 'yours' and 'you' better not let me catch 'you' if 'you' mess with mine. I will leave that at that.

As for the surprise scenario, I could go with that. I guess I can also see the value of doing the rote drills just to make the mechanics a kind of 'muscle memory' type of reaction. I just want to get the most out of the practice because, although I hope it never happens for real, if it does it may mean the difference between someone living or dieing. I hope the people I dive with take it as seriously as I do.

I'd imagine that a lot of my tenacity here is due to being new but I hope I don't get so comfortable that I lose this. I'm not paranoid about ooa situations and don't worry about it during a dive. I do try to keep in the back of my mind the possibility of an emergency and wether my current situation would aid or hinder my getting or giving assistance.

Joe

 

[Sideband]

As you continue with your dive education, you will receive additional training with an instructor in these emergency situations. Keep diving but KEEP TRAINING AND WITH A PROPER INSTRUCTOR.

You might want to consider the DIR Fundamentals classes. Other than some basics, this class goes over exactly what you are speaking about. Other agencies have some equivalent, however, before learning bad habits and diving with them for years, this is a good class to take so that you can go out in the world and gain experience after a solid foundation.

I plan on doing the AOW next year, probably towards March or April to start the dive season. I'm not trying to practice/learn more 'advanced' stuff on my own if that is your concern. I was just trying to add a more realistic approach to the basic skills. How often does a buddy run out of air while you are sitting on the bottom facing each other at arms length?

This may be a very general question, but what all is involved in the DIR fundies course? More specifically, does it require specific types of kit? I don't see myself moving away from my BCD vest for a while yet and my mask has a clear skirt and I like it. Get what I mean?

Joe

 

[MikeFerrara]

How often does a buddy run out of air while you are sitting on the bottom facing each other at arms length?

Never unless you really spend a lot of time sitting on the bottom. The first thing to do is practice midwater and horizontal maintaining depth.

This may be a very general question, but what all is involved in the DIR fundies course? More specifically, does it require specific types of kit? I don't see myself moving away from my BCD vest for a while yet and my mask has a clear skirt and I like it. Get what I mean?

Joe

Rent the equipment if you have to and do the class. There are very few ways to get training that's even remotely similar and an AOW class isn't even on the same scale.

If you're serious about your diving and skills taking this class and diving with other divers who have taken it will get you light years farther, faster than any other path that I know of.