Herding Cats

[chrpai]

I want to try to ask this as open ended as possible to solicit the broadest answers...

Let's say your known to dive a lot and frequently take on buddies of all skill levels. I'm talking everything from the guy who just certified this morning or hasn't dove in years to out of state instructors who are passing through town and just want to get wet.

It's usually just buddy on buddy but now and then you seem to get 2, 3 or even 4-5 people who are asking you to be their guide for the dive site.

It happened today. I picked a buddy, another guy and the DM buddied up. We all then agreed to go as two buddy teams. Once in the water I found out that the DM was having ear problems and might not be able to dive. Next thing you know it was the other two guys as a buddy team following me. I'll skip the details because that's a whole thread to itself... Not utterly horrible but could have gone down better.

I don't make any claims of being a "dive master". But I guess what I'm wondering is am I just asking for it by being appointed as a dive guide. Should I be refusing this role when it's more then one diver? If not, what kinds of training, knowledge and/or experience would help me heard multiple cats?

I've noticed different divers behave very differently under water and I'm not sure the best way to handle this is outside of the buddy team system.

 

[pocky21]

There's no harm in showing people the sights - but things change when those in tow view you as responsible and/or rely on you for their well being. If you aren't comfortable having followers without feeling responsible, then don't. If they aren't comfortable being responsible for themselves, then don't. If everyone has a clear understanding of each others expectations, then go have a blast!

 

[SeaHawk12]

If you chose to act as guide, one of the best ways to deal with the cats is to create a very precise dive plan. Go over it in excruciating detail with all the other divers, making sure to emphasize the respective roles of each diver. Let them know what they need to look for, the key points of the dive, and the signals that you and they should be familiar with. This will give them a vested interest in the dive and make then less inclined to simply bumble after you.

 

[CarcharodonCarcharias]

I don't know how close you are to these ppl or how trustworthy they are. But given the litigious nature of people nowadays and how trigger-happy they are for frivolous lawsuits, I think you are doing yourself a disservice.

I think your generosity is admirable and commendable. But at the end of the day, god forbid but if the horse manure hits the fan on one of the dives, you will have to be able to cover your behind should one of these divers take you to the court.

I'd say get a waiver ready and have them sign it before they step into the water with you.

 

[Nwcid]

I am a fairly new diver but know a couple of good sites. A couple of times now we have planned "group" dives. Got people pair off and headed for the water as a group since there is only one or two specific things to see in the fresh water. This has been a disaster.

Limited vis and dark makes doing this hard. Groups get out of place, slit things up, take slightly different courses even though the plan was to "follow" the prior group. It never goes as well as planned. I will not be doing this any more.

The times we have dove as two pairs or even a trio it seems to work fine.

 

[supergaijin]

I guess in your situation a 'Plan B' might be needed. During the briefing, discuss what to do if a diver needs to abort. In the above situation Plan the Dive and Dive the Plan seems to be the best solution which would have meant Dm's buddy sits out, or waits with the DM, until he/she can equalise.

Changing plans on the fly can be a cluster as you may have already experienced.

DM's often have a huge learning curve when they get in to the water with 'randoms'. They are 'trained' to do it, they should have 'seen' it during the DM training and then 'experienced' it under the eye of an instructor. Often they're single experiences only, so the scope cannot possibly cover all situations- there is the learning curve, however there is often immediate support (Q/A, mentoring etc.) from other staff members if working in a shop.

You ask about training: (insert Agency) Divemaster. If you research and choose your instructor, you will get valuable techniques out of it. You may fee it appropriate to have divers sign a waiver when diving with you.

 

[beanojones]

I'd say go ahead and do DM training with whichever agency you prefer, and get insured. And think about doing it for pay (or at least dive gear money) in some level or another

Honestly, the more people who want to do repeat dives with you, the more life is trying to tell you something. Talk to whatever dive shop is basically sending you divers, and get hooked up. People skills are at least as important as dive skills, and it sounds like you have the people skills covered.

IN the instructors forum we do talk a fair bit about how getting the best sort of DM, is usually about finding a person with people skills and then training them (from OW if needed).

(Also solo diving is all I ever do because I never want a busman's holiday, and because no one really want to do the dives I do, which are usually work related somehow. Or maybe people just don't like me.)

 

[cb5150]

CHRPAI: First of all amigo, this is Texas and anyone can sue anyone for anything.

If you train up as a DM and then offer yourself out as a dive guide, paid or unpaid, I think you'll be taking on more liability. Waivers aren't worth the paper they're printed on in Texas.

Why not just dive and have fun? Make it clear to the others that you're NOT a guide and if they want to follow your bubble trail...so be it. When I'm diving for fun I'm only responsible for me and my buddy and vice versa. When I'm diving for $$$ then yes, it's typically a "herding cats" scenario. Could I be sued in either scenario? Sure, but I'm just not going to obsess about it each time I hit the water.

Enjoy and see ya' on the bottom.

 

[Steve_C]

Been through this frequently.

When I agree I know I am taking on some responsibility. Besides the obvious dive briefing and discussion of plan and what to do if separation occurs I needed to learn a couple things.

Biggest thing I had to learn was pacing. I swim laps to try and keep in shape. In the water if not diving with a lot of gear what is a slow mellow pace for me turned out to be exhausting for some of my insta (and regular) buddies. I always dive wet and the dry suit guys have more drag.

So now when I am diving in a lead situation, the first thing to check is their buoyancy control. Then I make frequent stops and try to get a feel for their comfortable speed. We often have a "slow down" signal agreed on. We also have a "stop here and look around for a bit and then we regroup signal." Once we are into a comfortable dive we do a couple of air checks to judge their air consumption compared to mine. They are responsible for monitoring their air but it is helpful for me planning the route if I know what their air consumption rate is. There will be an air check or two later in the dive.

With a dive group I always insist on having a lead. We have an agreed signal to change that. While I usually wind up in lead I make a point of having my regular dive buddies lead some times so that they have those skills also. With 2 or 3 one group is fine. If it gets to be 4 or so, then we have individual buddy pairs with the understanding that buddy pair cohesion has priority.

 

[TSandM]

I have done this multiple times. Sometimes it goes well; other times not so much. A LOT depends on the divers.

You can try to control the variables as much as possible by the pre-dive briefing. I stress, over and over again, that the ONE thing I ask from the people with whom I am diving is that they STAY WITH ME. Most of the time, that works to get them to devote some of their situational awareness to knowing where I am, but not always. And it gets VERY interesting if somebody has severe buoyancy problems, and you're left with one diver on the bottom and another who is trying to cork.

The situation you describe, if I understand it, is one where you were suddenly given, underwater, a buddy with whom you had no opportunity to have a pre-dive discussion, and about whom you knew nothing. Depending on my own comfort with the site, conditions, and my other buddy, I might even wave that off. If not, I'd immediately make the dive plan more conservative and consider terminating the dive early if it's not going well.

Honestly, we try most of the time to put two experienced folks on a single unknown/novice. It reduces stress. Doing it the other way around is very likely to destroy your own dive, unless you are diving for the purpose of herding cats. I do that when I DM because I have to, but outside of my professional activities, I really don't want to spend my time underwater with my head on a swivel, trying to stamp out fires.