Help with regulator repair

[Skinsfan0260]

I was able to pick up a couple of used regulators for only fifty dollars. I wanted something that I could tear apart and take a look inside. Unfortunately when I put everything back together I now have leakage through the small ports in the regulator body. all the o-rings seam to be in great shape. I used the second regulator to ensure that I replaced everything on the first correctly back. I did have a friend clean them with her ultrasonic cleaner. They are now really shiny, really clean, but slowly leaking.
Regulator second stages says Waterlung by Sportsway. Sorry I do not have pics of second stages I am currently having my friend clean these also. They should be done by Monday. Does anyone know is the first stage is a Waterlung? I could not find anything on the internet that looked like this regulator that was made by Sportsway.

 

[tbone1004]

wait, so is the first or second stage leaking? If you don't have an IP gauge, that would be bad. It sounds like the IP might be too high, or the adjustment on the second stage is wrong... Take pics and post em on here, we can help a lot better

 

[herman]

Most of those were flow by piston regs. Kinda hard to long distance trouble shoot but odds are you have a bad Oring or you knicked a sealing surface while taking it apart. I assume you lubed the orings before reinstalling them. If you didn't they will roll and leak. Posting a photo will help, it might be a Sprotways Waterlung but without seeing it, hard to tell, mixed and matched old regs is not uncommon.

 

[herman]

wait, so is the first or second stage leaking? If you don't have an IP gauge, that would be bad. It sounds like the IP might be too high, or the adjustment on the second stage is wrong... Take pics and post em on here, we can help a lot better

He says "leaking through the small holes in the body". That pretty much says piston reg and most of the piston regs from that era were flow by. I have a hand full of them.


By the way Skins, if that is an older Waterlung it's very likely the second stage is a tilt valve design. Those are horrible to use and really difficult to service if the seats are bad, it requires custom fabrication of seat material. If there is a odd looking port plug with a hole in it DO NOT replace it with a solid plug, that is an over pressure relief valve. If the first stage IP goes high and your second stage is a tilt valve you stand a chance of blowing up a hose.

 

[Skinsfan0260]

Sorry everyone I thought I had attached photos. I do a lot of reading on this board but little posting.I will try to add the pictures again. I re-lubed the o-rings more generously this time and they seam to have sealed. When I get the other ones back from cleaning I will post pictures of them stripped down before I rebuild them.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

It takes a brave person to rebuild a reg he/she can't even identify.
It takes even more courage to troubleshoot a reg for which one doesn't have the reg repair manual or an exploded parts diagram.
I'm not sure how prudent it is to undertake this project without having any reg repair experience or reference materials. There's more to a reg overhaul than just cleaning and re-installing parts. I don't mean to discourage you, but I do think it would be wise to proceed with caution.

Skinsfan0260, have you rebuilt regs before? If not, perhaps we could direct you to a couple of wonderful reg repair books:

• Vance Harlow's Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair by Airspeed Press
• Regulator Savvy on the Scubatools.com website

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Sounds like a bad piston o-ring. I'd replace those, and look at the sealing surfaces to be sure there are no scratches. I'd be careful if re-lubing fixed the problem. Try attaching your reg to a tank and see how long it takes to leak down to ambient pressure. It should be overnight. If it is substantially less you may have a lesser version of the same issue.

Of course having a manual is a plus.

 

[herman]

It takes a brave person to rebuild a reg he/she can't even identify.
It takes even more courage to troubleshoot a reg for which one doesn't have the reg repair manual or an exploded parts diagram.
I'm not sure how prudent it is to undertake this project without having any reg repair experience or reference materials. There's more to a reg overhaul than just cleaning and re-installing parts. I don't mean to discourage you, but I do think it would be wise to proceed with caution.

Skinsfan0260, have you rebuilt regs before? If not, perhaps we could direct you to a couple of wonderful reg repair books:

• Vance Harlow's Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair by Airspeed Press
• Regulator Savvy on the Scubatools.com website

That is my normal mode of reg repair, half the regs I restore with are not marked. Not many manuals around for 40-50 yo regs much less official parts but in general I agree with you. Restoring regs with no information and no parts is not to be taken lightly. The good news is, there is really only a couple of basic designs and once you understand them, DIY service manuals are not that difficult. I spend a lot of time studing the reg's design and measuring the parts I remove. I don't repair them for anyone else and mine never see a dive more challanging than 20 ft in the quarry. I just like to see if I can restore them.

Now back to the OP. I have one just like that. What you have is a later model, early 70s I would guess that is a MK-5 Scubapro clone. It is a simple balanced flow thru piston. Your leak is most likely caused by the piston stem Oring. You did find it didn't you???. It's hidden inside the main body and a pain to remove. If you don't know it's there you likely did not find it. Since you say it's now working, odds are the piston oring was too dry, they require sufficient amounts of lube, otherwise they will roll when you install the piston. It is easy to distroy the piston oring when you reinstall the piston. To properly reinstall the piston, you need a insertion tool (aka bullet). It is a slim pointed insert that is the same diameter as the piston. It is tapered at one end and the other is reduced so that it fits into the piston opening. To use it, you insert it into the piston, lube it liberaly and slide the assembly through the reg body, removing the insertion tool from the other side once the piston is installed. You can make one out of pretty much any material, a hardwood dowel is easiest to cut and sand to shape. It must be sanded very smooth and then coated in assembly lube.

I am a big DIY fan and like to restore the old regs but like Bubbletrouble said, this is not something to be taken lightly if you intend to dive the regs. Get the books he mentions and study them. Read every service manual you can find, each one will teach you something new. Restoring old regs is not difficult from a service standpoint, all of them fall into just a few types and all of the basic designs are still in use (other than tilt valve second stages). Refering to the service manuals of similar designs will go a long way in helping you understand what you are doing.

 

[redacted]

Yes, a balanced piston design. With the ambient holes in the body, it is probably closer in design to a Mk10 than a Mk5, which are quite similar anyway. The point is, you could probably use a Mk10 schematic to get a real good idea about internal components and, most importantly, o-ring locations and functions. The problem is most likely one of the two piston o-ring (one LP on the piston head, and one HP in the body or on the shaft). It is also possible that such a leak could be caused by corrosion and/or deposits on those o-ring sealing surfaces or by tool damage to those surfaces. Based on how good the outside of that reg looks. I would not expect a corrosion or deposits problem but.... If you did not change both of those o-ring, then replace them first. If the HP o-ring is in the body, then you really need a bullet tool to protect that o-ring as the knife edge of the piston may cut it during installation. It is possible to infer which of those 2 o-rings is the problem based on the leak behavior as a function of tank pressure and purging action but it is easier to start by replacing both which is good to do anyway with an older reg.

BTW, to me, an understanding of how the design and function of a particular regulator (how it works) is more important than a specific schematic or repair manual. Sure, it is best to have both. But if you can only have one, the knowledge is more important than the reference documents. The one catch is those documents can be a big help in obtaining the knowledge.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Skinsfan0260]

I would like to take the opportunity to express my gratitude for the insights given to me. I truly appreciate it. I would also like to put your minds at ease I am not about to dive the deep blue with a 30 year old regulator that I just opened up cleaned and put back together. As a stated in my original post I purchased these so I could open them up, look inside and and learn from them. I also realize that this technology is probably obsolete. But what better way to begin to learn. Lord knows I am not about to start by dissecting my Aeris or my wife's Hollis. I expect that eventually with the proper reading, mentorship that I have found on SB and perseverance I will fully understand this regulators technology. Then I will move on to the next step, by finding a different regulator, tearing it apart and studying it. I do plan on getting a copy of scuba regulator and repair and regulator savvy. However I did mention that being married thing. I need to slowly acquire these and some tools or I will quickly get an ear full about spending so much money again on my scuba passion. Anyways I must regress. Once again I would like to thank everyone for their help and concern and look forward to checking back for more insights.