Heated Undergarment Battery Options

[DSTong]

Hi All.

I'm looking at the Santi Heated Vest for my cold water diving in the Seattle area. To power the vest, I'll need a battery pack with an E/O connector. Initially, I was looking at the Halcyon 13.5amp battery but wanted to see what other options were out there at a more affordable cost than $1,460.

Someone suggested that I just purchase the 13.5amp canister w/o the battery for $730. Then get the battery separately from another manufacturer. But what I'm concerned about is if I do this, will the pins, and polarity, line up correctly?

Thanks!

 

[newmanl]

If you don't mind on-line shopping - or at least on-line browsing over the 49th, Northern Light Ca. may be able to help. The owner (Rene) makes very rugged battery packs, lights and in very limited volumes, a heated vest - all crafted with the best materials and workmanship. You can find him on Facebook or the web (northernlightca.ca). I have no connection to the company other than being a very satisfied customer (12V heated vest with 8-hour L-ion battery pack).

 

[grantctobin]

How many watt hours do you need?

Short list:
Halcyon (overpriced)
Light Monkey (with Pitkin controller in head or the separate one) (I have 2x20aH packs)
UWLD

Do you need to travel with it?

Others I've seen but not used:
SeaYa
Trojan (new US importer quite annoying on FB but maybe he has large personal capital investment)
Smart-Tex Diving battery - SmartTex heated clothing (Jerzy is great to deal with, I use his gloves and socks, has Piezo control in head)
Home-made

 

[DSTong]

I don't plan on traveling with it in the air so I'd go with the Lithium Ion battery. I think a minimum of 12amps should be sufficient. Ideally it should last 3-4 hours since that would cover 2 dives with a 1 hour surface interval and then some.

I looked at the Light Monkey and with that, how long will the battery life last? I'm thinking maybe 3 years? And at that point, you have to buy a whole new battery canister, correct?

 

[grantctobin]

Battery math (ish) w LM 20aH pack and Santi 60W vest, for example

Capacity in wH = aH * V
Capacity = (2x10.4aH batters)*11.1V battery = 230wH

Draw = pluggedinstuff*1.1
Draw = 60*1.1 = 66

Hours if pack is full: 230/66 = 3.48 = 3hr29min

Bear in mind, you shouldn't really need to run pack on full and it's really useful to be able to step down the heat output. This is possible via pitkin controller or a couple other things (UWLD has a great controller). If you need 60W to stay warm, you're probably under insulated relative to risk of a suit flood.

There's a few threads both on here and on battery forums with regards to number of life cycles and expected life. 300-500 cycles is average, especially if stored at ~40% capacity. Storing full or empty or at higher temperatures (iirc) negatively impacts total life. I have some 10aH LM cans that are 5-6yr old still with >80% of their rather capacity but ymmv.

TSA rules mandate a maximum of 160wH of capacity and UN 38.3 Test Compliant. This is exactly the size of the UWLD tall canister. LM batteries use a funky loophole interpretation on their test (even their 15aH battery is above 160wH). You can fly with Li-Ion, but you're capacity constrained.

 

[tbone1004]

One thing to keep in mind with almost every lithium pack out there. They are typically 3s packs that are nominal 11.1v with a max charge voltage of 12.6v. This is lower than the voltage that those vests were designed to operate at so they will have lower heat output than originally designed. If you drive without a controller then the heat output will gradually degrade as the pack voltage degrades.
If you're going to spend real money, which I recommend you do, get the UWLD vest controller. It is a 5s pack that is 18v nominal and uses a buck board to kick the voltage down. That means that it can operate at 100% output for the entirety of the pack duration with no degradation in heat output. It also gives you 5 levels of heat output so you aren't constantly turning the thing on and off. With the Light Monkey controller, you have 3 output options, but "high" at the end of the dive is more comparable to "medium" at the beginning of the dive due to the voltage drop in the packs. With UWLD, "high" is always "high".
The UWLD with the "tall" canister at 160wh which is comparable to the Halcyon 13.5a pack *150wh*, with the controller is $1700 and is UN38.3 compliant to fly. This also means that it has gone through destructive testing to make sure that it is highly unlikely to catastrophically fail on you...

Getting the canister with a battery from Battery Space is fine, get a multimeter with the $ you save and learn how to use it so you don't cook anything. With the Halcyon route though, you only get one speed and you'll be flipping it on and off and on and off and on and off throughout the entire dive since "high" on these vests for too long in moderately chilly water like you have in the PNW will cook you.

 

[grantctobin]

One thing to keep in mind with almost every lithium pack out there. They are typically 3s packs that are nominal 11.1v with a max charge voltage of 12.6v. This is lower than the voltage that those vests were designed to operate at so they will have lower heat output than originally designed. If you drive without a controller then the heat output will gradually degrade as the pack voltage degrades.
If you're going to spend real money, which I recommend you do, get the UWLD vest controller. It is a 5s pack that is 18v nominal and uses a buck board to kick the voltage down. That means that it can operate at 100% output for the entirety of the pack duration with no degradation in heat output. It also gives you 5 levels of heat output so you aren't constantly turning the thing on and off. With the Light Monkey controller, you have 3 output options, but "high" at the end of the dive is more comparable to "medium" at the beginning of the dive due to the voltage drop in the packs. With UWLD, "high" is always "high".
The UWLD with the "tall" canister at 160wh which is comparable to the Halcyon 13.5a pack *150wh*, with the controller is $1700 and is UN38.3 compliant to fly. This also means that it has gone through destructive testing to make sure that it is highly unlikely to catastrophically fail on you...

Getting the canister with a battery from Battery Space is fine, get a multimeter with the $ you save and learn how to use it so you don't cook anything. With the Halcyon route though, you only get one speed and you'll be flipping it on and off and on and off and on and off throughout the entire dive since "high" on these vests for too long in moderately chilly water like you have in the PNW will cook you.

What he said.

 

[DSTong]

One thing to keep in mind with almost every lithium pack out there. They are typically 3s packs that are nominal 11.1v with a max charge voltage of 12.6v. This is lower than the voltage that those vests were designed to operate at so they will have lower heat output than originally designed. If you drive without a controller then the heat output will gradually degrade as the pack voltage degrades.
If you're going to spend real money, which I recommend you do, get the UWLD vest controller. It is a 5s pack that is 18v nominal and uses a buck board to kick the voltage down. That means that it can operate at 100% output for the entirety of the pack duration with no degradation in heat output. It also gives you 5 levels of heat output so you aren't constantly turning the thing on and off. With the Light Monkey controller, you have 3 output options, but "high" at the end of the dive is more comparable to "medium" at the beginning of the dive due to the voltage drop in the packs. With UWLD, "high" is always "high".
The UWLD with the "tall" canister at 160wh which is comparable to the Halcyon 13.5a pack *150wh*, with the controller is $1700 and is UN38.3 compliant to fly. This also means that it has gone through destructive testing to make sure that it is highly unlikely to catastrophically fail on you...

Getting the canister with a battery from Battery Space is fine, get a multimeter with the $ you save and learn how to use it so you don't cook anything. With the Halcyon route though, you only get one speed and you'll be flipping it on and off and on and off and on and off throughout the entire dive since "high" on these vests for too long in moderately chilly water like you have in the PNW will cook you.

Interesting. I just went to their website and the controller appears to be on backorder. But I am intrigued by it's features. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Chris H]

I looked at the Light Monkey and with that, how long will the battery life last? I'm thinking maybe 3 years? And at that point, you have to buy a whole new battery canister, correct?

The batteries in a LM canister can be replaced. I have a 15Ah LM battery with a Pitkin controller lid. I like it. Get a controller for whatever you get. It is nice to have a setting besides roast.

 

[tbone1004]

Interesting. I just went to their website and the controller appears to be on backorder. But I am intrigued by it's features. Thanks for the heads up!

email @Bobby directly, I believe that they're back in stock and the website may not be updated yet