Head spinning, frustration and confusion(long)

[craracer]

Before I start into my questions and issues, a little history on me:

I just got my OW certification after doing several Discovery dives. I have <25 dives under my belt. All of them in Mexico and Jamaica. I dive with my wife, who is an AOW diver.
We will probably always do resort dives with either master divers or instructors. Probably always warm water ocean diving. Would like to do wreck and cave diving. Also interested in Nitrox. I will probably be doing between 20-50 dives per year. This sport is something I plan on doing for many years to come. I am so glad that I fell into diving because I can do it during the off season (motorcycle racing).

I had resort rental gear problems both in Mexico and in Jamaica. Free flowing, BC valves exploding.......

Anyway, I would like to buy my own gear but am having a heck of a time with it. I would like to buy fins, regulator and octopus, guages and a BC. I've been to several local dive shops. Some have been very helpful and others not helpful at all.

1. One dive shop told me about the evils of the internet and black market gear. I looked at a regulator that they had priced at $167.00 more than the first place I looked at on the net. It's hard to ignore that kind of a discount on just the regulator.

So, my question is: How the heck do you know which internet dealers are the non-black market people?? How do you know that they aren't just selling you stuff that was reconditioned or on recall and not fixed?? Which dealers would you place on the "good folks" list?

2. What the heck are all of these abbreviations I see here on the board? I need a dictionary/translator. I've figured some of them out (or at least close to the translation). Example: OOA=out of air, LDS=local dive shop............

3. Every shop says that I need to get a computer. They named off all of the pros but none of the cons. Do I need a computer? The reason I ask is that they are expensive (which cuts into my budget). BTW, my budget is not set in stone but it's somewhere around $800-$1200.

4. How the heck do I know which regulator will be good for me? The dive shops only rent select models so I really have no way of trying out a regulator without buying it (or any other gear for that matter).

5. The shops told me that I need a environmentally sealed second stage. As I said, I will only be diving in the ocean. Are they correct?

[Insert banging my head on the table noise here] There is just so freaking much gear out there to chose from and everyone (shops) think that they have the absolutely best stuff on the planet.:light: I only want to buy this stuff once!!!

In motorcycle racing the more experienced racers will adopt a newbie and help them through their first season. I need to be adopted by a diver.

Thanks in advance. What a first post huh?:shakehead

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Dude,

Take a pill. You're gonna vapor lock.

Seriously...

1. Call Larry at Scuba Toys. He's on the board. Quite helpful. There are a half dozen other guys on the board with their own web-based gigs going. You can basically trust any businessguy or gal advertising and active on this board. If someone was a lowbrow, word would spread quickly. What you can't do is come on the board and 24 hours later have it all figured out. Plan on spending some time getting some basics down...starting with figuring out what you are seeking in dive gear.

2. Abbreviations - they rock! You'll pick up on it. There is a sticky posted somewhere, try the FAQ (uh, frequently asked questions) at the bottom of the page for starters. There is also a welcome to new divers section that I suggest you peruse.

3. No, you do not need a freakin' computer to dive. I have been diving since 1975. I have never owned a dive computer. Astonishingly, I continue to live.

4. There are about 786,498 threads on this board regarding which regulators are good and which suck. First, pick a few companies - I happen to like Oceanic and Zeagle for newer divers - it's tough to go wrong with either. But if you have bucks to blow, have at it. Then start Searching threads: control bar, top of this page, third button from the right, beneath where it says "Welcome, craracer", click on it then click on 'advanced search'. Insert name of reg, etc. Pack a lunch...there is enough reading to keep you occupied for quite awhile.

5. You do not need an environmentally sealed second stage (uh, I think they meant 'first stage'). It is good for some things, less so for others, like any tool. In the ocean, unless it's freakin' cold ocean or wicked dirty, I fail to see any significant advantages.


You don't need to be adopted by a diver, you need a spiritual guide! Fortunately for you, you found ScubaBoard, which is the next best thing. There are over 60,000 people on the board who will be happy to tell you whenever you screw the pooch, and how to avoid severe strokery in your immediate future. Many of them may actually know what they're talking about. It's sort of a parochial version of "It takes a Village to Raise a Diver"...

Have fun and be safe. That's what this place is all about. In a very few minutes a few others will come along and direct you to several threads, some going on as we speak, others from within the past couple weeks, on the exact same subject. I suggest you start by reading those threads, and see what others have decided and why. You'll get used to the place in very short order.

Oh, and fill out your profile - at least so people have an idea of where you are. It allows them to put their reponses into context, makes them more useful.

Welcome to ScubaBoard.

Doc

 

[rookers]

Don't bother with a computer the first go round and use the money to invest in a decent regulator. Learn to dive your tables, the knowledge will serve you well long term.

 

[Hollywoodivers]

Call Hollywoodivers, ask for Bill, Hal or Karim. They can help....I would still try those local lds' as well ....let them know you are serious and show them the printout of some authorized dealer prices...they can probobly match or get close...
However...call any manufacturer before you buy from an un authorized dealer online....you are going to have issues with any dive gear so you may need the support of the gealer and or the manufacturue down the line. If you buy from black market and there comes a recall...tough..I have seen it too many times...call the manufacturer before you buy...and call me 1 877 ok scuba...we can help

 

[wallacm]

I agree with Rookers, altho the computer is an extremely good investment. There are many good choices with gear, although from your post as far as bcd since your interested in more technical diving down the road you should bite the bullet and invest in some tech gear, instead of buying rec gear and then having to replace it ie a backplate and wing (bp/w)

 

[runamonk]

The less you buy right now the better. Most likely you're going to do like the rest of did when we got into the sport and bought all our gear at once before we knew better. We ended up putting alot of it in the closet or selling it to make new purchases for better or different gear later on that ended up being better suited to us.

I would start out small. Get your own mask, gloves, booties and fins. Two other main purchases would be a Reg and BC. These are the two most important pieces and renting them usually means garbage or very low quality.

I wouldn't worry about a computer just yet, yes they're great to have and they come in handy but I would wait and learn your tables and just get used to diving.

Welcome to the board and to diving!

 

[mstevens]

The shops told me that I need a environmentally sealed second stage. As I said, I will only be diving in the ocean. Are they correct?

Don't forget that parts of the ocean get very, very cold. Think of the parts that are under the north polar ice cap, for example. Also, most cave diving (in which you indicated an interest) is in fresh water, not in the ocean.

I understand that you intend to do warm-water diving, for which you don't really need "environmental sealing." That said, I'd want to be prepared for any eventuality, including unexpectedly low ambient temperatures and icing, if I were entering an overhead environment such as a cave. Apart from icing, though, this makes no difference at all in the performance of a regulator.

Finally, I don't believe there is any way to seal a second stage. If water can't get in, air can't get out. Could it have been first stages they were talking about?

Don't take this at anything other than face value, but it doesn't sound as if you've done enough diving yet to buy lots of gear. For example, you really need to understand dive tables and how they differ from computers before you can make a decision. My wife and I got our computers only in our 26th year of diving.

When my son (then 10) started diving, I bought gear from him. I got him a Triple-L/ScubaL BC that he'll probably want to replace soon. If I'd been more certain he'd love it as much as he does and weren't going to lose interest I would have gotten him a Zeagle Stiletto and just bought new harnesses as he grew. I got him an Apeks ATX20, since there's no way he's doing anything other than warm open water diving for quite some time. I chose it, though, expecting that eventually he'd want a "better" reg since it would make a decent backup and can probably be sold down the line. He knows his tables cold, but we all dive on Aeris computers (his isn't AI, but otherwise is the same as his mom's and mine). He simply didn't have the ability to know what he wanted, so I chose for him.

I agree rental gear can suck, especially in resort areas. That said, cheap gear you own can be just as bad. It's pound-foolish to skimp. Good gear lasts longer and is less likely to need to be replaced when you realize it won't meet your needs. Until you can be fairly sure of what you want, avoid buying.

Ignore the unhelpful shops. Listen to the helpful ones. Most internet gear is only dangerous to the local dive shop owner. My nearest shop is about 30 miles away, so I get nearly everything online. Great prices, great service, great gear.

 

[jpcpat]

Time for some valium. There IS a bewildering equipment selection out there. Good news is that, with the major manufacturers, it works well. For a good overview, I found this helpful: http://www.njscuba.net/gear/index.html

What you need greatly depends on the diving you want to do. For Shallow, Warm water reefs, Jacket BC with little lift and lower performance reg is all you need. As you go deeper, the quality of the reg matters more. As you go colder, you have a heavier wetsuit, requiring more weight and a BC with more lift. Cave diving is more extreme still and had very specific gear requirements.

To try and answer your questions:
1) Scubatoys has a great reputation. Leisurepro sell cheapest, but they are not an authorized dealer for most of what they sell, so you get a store warranty, not a Manufacturers warranty. If there is a piece of gear you want from a dealer, call the manufacturer and ask about the dealer.

2) Check out the FAQ or ask the question in the thread. Most people are happy to clarify

3) A computer is more precise than the tables, and usually gives you more bottom time, since tables assume you spend all your time at your deepest depth, while a computer calculates based on the multilevel diving most of us do. On vacation in Florida, I've been able to make the 4th/5th dive of the day based on the computer, where the tables would not have allowed that. YMMV (your mileage may vary). For that reason, I made it my first gear purchase.

4) There are lots of opinions about which is the best regulator. Most of us would agree that any reg from a major manufacturer will breathe reliably and well at recreational depths. What features do you really want/need, and are you willing to pay for. Oceanic's DVT, for example protects the first stage inlet if you accidentally drop it in the rinse tank with the dust cap off. I'm absent minded, so I wanted that. You may not. You don't NEED a breathing resistance knob. My preference is to have it. and so on and so forth.

5) Environmental sealing is only required if the water temp is below 50. Non Sealed can freeze under these conditions. For warm, shallow reefs, it's not needed. For wrecks off the NY coast it is.

You have just been adopted by a few thousand divers, so cheer up.

 

[almitywife]

ditto what others have already said - except for the abbreviations and FAQ bit

you wont find MOF in there

welcome

 

[Damselfish]

There's good arguments for not waiting too long to buy gear if you're going to stick with this. If you own gear you will dive more, and at some point you'll break even over rentals, and it will be better with gear you know and trust as you've discovered. If you rush to buy gear before you've learned more about it, good chance you will wind up with some things you will want to replace. If you wait a bit and do lots of research you should do much better, but you'll still probably change your mind about some things later. If you get into certain kinds of diving you may need specific kinds of gear, you can try and learn enough to plan ahead for some of that, but again chances are if you get to that point you're going to change stuff anyway (and spend a lot more money that you're even thinking about right now. )

1) Shops that don't sell on the internet tend to say stuff like that. It's true there are some places that sell "grey market" gear with their own warranty. They're not authorized dealers for many of the manufacturers so the manufacturers warrenty does not apply. The warranty matters more for some things (mostly regs) than others. Some manufacturers don't allow their brands to be sold on the net or have prices advertised, and they pretty much fix the prices, but the grey market folks don't follow any of that. And there's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with the gear, just certain pros and cons to buying this way. There's also lots of places that sell on the net that are authorized dealers so things so come with manufacturers warranties. Realize that your LDS probably isn't doing anywhere near the volume of some of these places. And it costs them money to keep stuff in stock so you can see it, try it on, have someone help you in person, etc. On the other hand, some internet dealers will do a better job of helping you remotely than your LDS will locally. There are like a billion threads talking about all this, search on this board for "Leisure Pro" and you'll find lots.

2) Asked often. Here's one thread.

3) You don't need a computer, people dove fine before they were invented. But you will probably want one sooner or later. If you are on a budget it is a good thing to put off until later. They are nice to have and are very useful in certain situations, for example the multiday-multidive-multilevel diving often done on a dive trip. (They're not really that expensive, the shop may be showing you fancy ones but you can get one that does everything you need for around $300.)

4) A regulator is actually one thing that you can learn more by researching than you can by trying them. So start reading. You will start to get an idea of what sorts of things to look for, then you can decide what things are important to you, then you will be close to picking something.

5) You do not need a sealed reg for warm water ocean diving.


One comment - you say "We will probably always do resort dives with either master divers or instructors. Probably always warm water ocean diving. Would like to do wreck and cave diving."

Your goal should be to be independent divers, not relying on a DM or instructor to babysit you. As you gain experience you should find not only do you not need that, you won't want that. And you are always responsible for yourself, even now. In many places the DMs are only there as guides to point out critters, in some situations there will not be DMs at all. If you are thinking about entering wrecks and caves someday, that is something that comes after a bunch more experience and training, and you will be well past relying on a DM.