Harness/BP/W

[FloridaDM]

I have always used a rear or vest style inflate and may try using a harness with a BP/W......any suggestions. Just incase I move forward, I would like for it to be for singles or doubles.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I have always used a rear or vest style inflate and may try using a harness with a BP/W......any suggestions. Just incase I move forward, I would like for it to be for singles or doubles.

Not much to go one here, but I will suggest that you avoid "dual purpose" (singles or doubles) wings.

A single rig will perform better with a dedicated singles wing and doubles need a doubles specific wing.

BP&W's offer advantages that can be largely negated with a dual purpose wing.

Tobin

 

[Rascally Rabbit]

We would need a clearification here. Are you saying that you would like a wing that is capable of both being used as a singles and doubles wing saving you from the need to invest in to dedicated wings. Or are you willing to invest in to dedicated wings?

If it is a single dual use wing you seek there are some manufacturers that make wings rated for this but you should realize there are some compromises in performance. Dive Rite, OMS and other well respected manufacturers do have offering of this type.

Tobin can correct me if I'm wrong but his company DSS doesn't offer such a wing.

I'd say that using a dual purpose wing will start you into a modular system that is the goodness of a BP&W. Because of the need to float doubles a dual purpose wing will generally be larger and with a greater lift rating than what is generally needed for single tank diving. Because of this size difference these wings may exhibit degrees of "The Taco effect" in which the wing tends to wrap the tank. Many manufacturer mitigate this effect with varying systems to control air movement within the wing such as bungies.

The main advantage is it's modular design which allows the diver to reconfigure with different accessories as their needs change and not dump the entire BCD. So starting with a dual purpose wing may serve a purpose for a diver that wants to dive both singles and a small set of doubles while minimizing their innitial investment. A second advantage of the BP&W is moving some of the needed weigh to the backplate which puts it in a better position for horizontal stability during the dive. So as you can see to say these wings largely negate the advantages of a BP&W goes way too far. Maybe Tobin's opinion on this subject is more related to the lack of a product in this catagory and the business advantage of selling 2 wings instead of one.

If optimal performance is your goal and money is no object then having a number of wings to choose from will allow you to more finely tune to different dive profiles but on the other hand you can make choices that will allow you to cover a wider number of profiles with less equipment without sacrificing safety.

 

[FloridaDM]

We would need a clearification here. Are you saying that you would like a wing that is capable of both being used as a singles and doubles wing saving you from the need to invest in to dedicated wings. Or are you willing to invest in to dedicated wings?

If it is a single dual use wing you seek there are some manufacturers that make wings rated for this but you should realize there are some compromises in performance. Dive Rite, OMS and other well respected manufacturers do have offering of this type.

Tobin can correct me if I'm wrong but his company DSS doesn't offer such a wing.

I'd say that using a dual purpose wing will start you into a modular system that is the goodness of a BP&W. Because of the need to float doubles a dual purpose wing will generally be larger and with a greater lift rating than what is generally needed for single tank diving. Because of this size difference these wings may exhibit degrees of "The Taco effect" in which the wing tends to wrap the tank. Many manufacturer mitigate this effect with varying systems to control air movement within the wing such as bungies.

The main advantage is it's modular design which allows the diver to reconfigure with different accessories as their needs change and not dump the entire BCD. So starting with a dual purpose wing may serve a purpose for a diver that wants to dive both singles and a small set of doubles while minimizing their innitial investment. A second advantage of the BP&W is moving some of the needed weigh to the backplate which puts it in a better position for horizontal stability during the dive. So as you can see to say these wings largely negate the advantages of a BP&W goes way too far. Maybe Tobin's opinion on this subject is more related to the lack of a product in this catagory and the business advantage of selling 2 wings instead of one.

If optimal performance is your goal and money is no object then having a number of wings to choose from will allow you to more finely tune to different dive profiles but on the other hand you can make choices that will allow you to cover a wider number of profiles with less equipment without sacrificing safety.

Thanks, I may start with a singles harness/bp/w. I am familiar with rear and vest inflate brands, but never have used a bp/w and was curious whats out there.

 

[cool_hardware52]

We would need a clearification here. Are you saying that you would like a wing that is capable of both being used as a singles and doubles wing saving you from the need to invest in to dedicated wings. Or are you willing to invest in to dedicated wings?

If it is a single dual use wing you seek there are some manufacturers that make wings rated for this but you should realize there are some compromises in performance. Dive Rite, OMS and other well respected manufacturers do have offering of this type.

Tobin can correct me if I'm wrong but his company DSS doesn't offer such a wing.

There are many items that DSS doesn't manufacture simply because they are IMO, and in the opinion of many experienced and qualified BP&W users, sub optimal. Dual purpose wings aren't any more difficult to build than any other wing. I could be making them by about Wednesday if I thought they were a good idea. I don't, so I don't produce or sell them.

So as you can see to say these wings largely negate the advantages of a BP&W goes way too far.

No not really. Most move to a backplate and wing for improved in water performance, easier horizontal trim, and easier venting. While modularity is a benefit, the vast majority of BP&W's sold today *NEVER* see a doubles wing.

Maybe Tobin's opinion on this subject is more related to the lack of a product in this catagory and the business advantage of selling 2 wings instead of one.

Again, with no evidence, you find the need to suggest my advice is motivated by greed. This false, uncalled for, and entirely untrue. Virtually everyday I talk people out of buying gear they don't need. Can you produce even one person I tried to sell them something more than they needed?

The reality is dual purpose wings often leads to new BP&W divers buying three wings.

First they buy a dual purpose wing. (Dive shops *Love* dual purpose wings, they only have to stock one)

Then, once they actually learn how a BP&W works they discover it's not really ideal for single tank diving.

Then if they do transition to doubles they find out they discover, that their extra magic, swiss army knife, do it all combo wing is also the wrong wing for doubles. Now they need their 3rd wing.

I talk with divers with these problems every week. I've recommended gear for thousands of divers.

To select the proper doubles wing you need to know:

How buoyant their exposure suit is & What cylinders they will be diving.

Virtually no divers seeking their first BP&W can answer these questions.

If optimal performance is your goal and money is no object then having a number of wings to choose from will allow you to more finely tune to different dive profiles but on the other hand you can make choices that will allow you to cover a wider number of profiles with less equipment without sacrificing safety.

The true low cost approach is to buy descent singles setup and learn to dive it. Then if doubles really become a reality buy a doubles wing. Most never will move to doubles.

Anybody that has actually made the transition to doubles, and actually does dives that require doubles, knows full well that trying to save ~$300 by buying a dual purpose wing is false economy.

The transition to doubles is expensive:

A couple sets of tanks (with bands and manifold) 2 x $600 $1200

4 ish deco bottles (with stage kits) 4 x $150 $600

4 ish stage bottles (with stage kits) 4 x $150 $600

Drysuit (with a couple sets of undies) $3000

Argon set for the drysuit $250

6+ regulators 6 x $600 $3600

Training $3000

+gas + computer + reels + bolt snaps +etc etc

On the cheap it might be possible to make the leap for $5K-8K

In reality it's more like $10K-15K+

Screwing up your singles rig with a "dual purpose" wing so you can "save" ~$300 on the right doubles wing is just silly.


Tobin

 

[FloridaDM]

Like I said, for now I am looking for a good singles harness/bp/w.....any suggestions?

 

[scuba pro]

FloridaDM,

Just saw your post about looking for a BP/W with the harness. I am currently selling a BP/W with the following specifics:

OxyCheq Mach V (black on black) wing with a 30lb. lift
Highland 2lb. alum backplate
HIghland unweighted STA
This set up also comes with a webbing harness, all D-rings, crotch strap, tank straps, and weight pockets.

I have only conducted about 5 or 7 dives with this set up. If you would like to see pictures send me a PM and I will send them to you.

I am asking $300.00 and will pay for the shipping. The reason I am selling is that I have moved back into my jacket, so there is no need for the BP/W.

Scuba Pro