Graduated license???

[wedivebc]

In light of some of the recent tragedies that have occured in our local waters I found myself talking with a charter operator and we were wondering how does a dive operator ascertain a persons fitness to dive in a given environment. For instance we had a couple who had advanced c-cards yet neither of them knew how to set up their gear because they had always had the boat DM do it for them. Several years ago a young girl was lost from a charter boat. Her and her friend were certified in Dominican Republic and were doing their first cold water dives. They got seperated from the group and her buddy ended up trying desperately to lift her off the bottom at 200ft before she surfaced and called for help.
These examples make me think there is a need to assess a divers suitablity for the local conditions. I suggested requiring divers to produce a log book demonstrating experience in conditions similar to local skill levels or else require them to pay for a DM escorted dive until they can demonstrate competency.
Another option taken from the motor vehicle branch of BC is that we have graduated licenseing. You are given a learners permit untill you log some miles, then do a road test and get your N (new driver) which requires you to display a green letter N on your car and has some restiction then after 2 years and another road test all conditions are removed.

Anyone have any other ideas or comments on this?

 

[Diver Dennis]

I would agree with having a DM guided "check out" dive because I think log books are useless as a measure of true experience. B.C. has had a very bad year and perhaps such a change is required.

 

[Bill51]

I had a similar discussion with a couple scuba diving flight instructor buddies a few months ago while we were trying to figure out the new sport and recreational pilot’s licenses.

We were talking about the marginal OW students that don’t totally fail, but have no business diving without a DM around them at all times. Some of these students may never qualify as a true OW diver and some just need a few more dives under their weight belt. I think too many shops and instructors feel an obligation to give an OW certificate to anyone that completes their class because the only other option is to fail them. If they had a third alternative to grant them a conditional OW, it would take some of the pressure off the instructor, and it would be a warning for any dive operator that took them diving in the future. The conditional would be somewhere between a resort course diver and a full fledged OW diver.

For instance, a charter boat operator could charge an additional $10 for a conditional OW diver and know that they had to have one DM to supervise every 4 conditional divers. Ultimately it would not only make diving safer for everyone, it would make many dive boats run smoother if they knew the type divers they were dealing with in advance.

 

[JeffG]

Yawn....Let Darwin do his work.

Who says the judges have the qualifications to judge? It was their peer group that certified these people to begin with.

 

[TeddyDiver]

wondering how does a dive operator ascertain a persons fitness to dive in a given environment...... I suggested requiring divers to produce a log book demonstrating experience in conditions similar to local skill levels or else require them to pay for a DM escorted dive until they can demonstrate competency.
Anyone have any other ideas or comments on this?

It's a very "northern" problem people having their certification in tropics (or looking from here 70deg north in moderate waters) and coming to dive in totally different conditions around their home.
Both of your thoughts are in use here (anyway in my club). We keep log books, and check up the logs of visiting divers before airfills etc. Divers certified in warm waters without experience in cold get more experienced buddy to accomodate (with buddy line , not nesessarily a DM).
I wish the best for all your efforts!

 

[Bill51]

Yawn....Let Darwin do his work.

That’s my knee jerk reaction too, but the litigation would drive the cost of diving up under our current litigation lottery society. I have no desire to pay the heirs of idiots.

We have an obligation to maintain some chlorine in the gene pool.

 

[JeffG]

That’s my knee jerk reaction too, but the litigation would drive the cost of diving up under our current litigation lottery society. I have no desire to pay the heirs of idiots.

We have an obligation to maintain some chlorine in the gene pool.

In the real world...Its the same old, same old, nothing has changed. But, the only litigation or government interference comes from people like wedivebc trying to "save us" from ourselves...thus ending up costing us everything.

 

[Bill51]

In the real world...Its the same old, same old, nothing has changed. But, the only litigation or government interference comes from people like wedivebc trying to "save us" from ourselves...thus ending up costing us everything.

When I got my first C card in 1961, we were all worried that the government would step in and start issuing scuba licenses, but the industry pulled together, self regulated itself, and we’ve avoided intrusive government interference. With the rapid growth of the sport we’re seeing potential divers that we never envisioned attempting diving 40 years ago and if the industry wants to maintain it’s self regulation and keep the government out, we need to stay ahead of the problems.

I’ve seen no one on this topic suggest the government get involved and many people looking for ways to keep them out. I would be more worried at this time of insurance companies stepping in to charge additional premiums for scuba divers in America, but I have no idea how reduced scuba safety would play out with single provider medical care in Canada.

 

[JeffG]

When I got my first C card in 1961, we were all worried that the government would step in and start issuing scuba licenses, but the industry pulled together, self regulated itself, and we’ve avoided intrusive government interference. With the rapid growth of the sport we’re seeing potential divers that we never envisioned attempting diving 40 years ago and if the industry wants to maintain it’s self regulation and keep the government out, we need to stay ahead of the problems.

I’ve seen no one on this topic suggest the government get involved and many people looking for ways to keep them out. I would be more worried at this time of insurance companies stepping in to charge additional premiums for scuba divers in America, but I have no idea how reduced scuba safety would play out with single provider medical care in Canada.

What I see is someone trying to dream up a scheme to protect divers from themselves, which is the first step in squashing my freedom.

Industry..self regulating itself...OK...Lets teach people to dive on their knees, but we will regulate the "quality" of the students LOL....ROTFALMAO...

Why would the insurance company's finally "show up" and charge us extra premiums. Statistically, the number of deaths is small, but I guess if someone makes enough noise, you could make it an issue and I'm sure the insurance companies will prove you right and charge more for something. Put it perspective...how many people died this year diving. Now go and open up your local paper, if you live in any kind of major center, more people probably died that day, due to all sorts of nasty things...car accedents...fires...etc etc

But, hey if your goal is to take away the rights of the majority to protect the small minority that end up killing themselfs...knock yourself out, but you won't have my support, actually I would oppose you.

 

[Bill51]

Statistically small is that there were 301 fatal plane crashes last year worldwide, yet all 700,000 American pilots experience discrimination from some insurance companies, just as scuba divers did back in the 60s when we were denied life insurance from some companies because of our sport.

I personally don’t care if you buy your equipment from eBay, setup your own compressor at home, and teach yourself how to do 300’ trimix dives without any certificate. At least your heirs won’t have anyone to sue if you kill yourself, but certification does to a large degree protect many in the dive industry. I like the idea that I can show my C Card and logbook anywhere in the world and conveniently get my tanks filled without doing a demo dive to the shop or taking a test everywhere I go.

Greater granularity in diver certification will allow more divers more freedom if there is a fall back level for those not able or ready to achieve full OW, but don’t want to be subjected to a resort course everywhere they go, and many competent OW divers who don’t hold advanced certificates may be less likely to be hassled on their first dives with a new operator if OW weren’t given out so freely. To me it’s one more way of providing better education to a minority of prospective divers while assuring me that I won’t be lumped in with less competent divers and I’ll maintain the freedom to dive as I wish having proven my abilities.