Got Lift? And other gear questions.

[Dirty-Dog]

As I have said before, I am extremely new to SCUBA. My wife and I did a resort course and a whopping 8 OW dives, all in Cancun. But that was enough to trigger an addiction. We've done the PADI eLearning and will be finishing our OW course in Cancun this May (90 days from this post...). Sadly, dive opportunities are lacking here in Colorado, so we seem destined to be vacation divers (bottom of the food chain, I know...). We'll just have to win the lottery so we can spend more time on vacation.

I'm making some gear purchases, but since we are poor nurses, not rich doctors, we're being cautious and trying to avoid buyers remorse. So far, I've bought us:
Henderson 5mm exposure suits and boots.
Scuba Pro Jet fins with the spring straps.
St Moritz Momentum dive watches (I don't know nearly enough to buy a comp yet...)
EMT Shears (we have these laying all over the place...)
Titanium dive tools (No, they're not Rambo-sized...)
Masks (Low profile, with Rx lenses in mine)
Snorkels
PADI eDRP

So, that seems to be all the "cheap" stuff. Anything else I need to think about? Or any of it I'm going to regret? Now I'm trying to learn enough about the more expensive gear to make sensible choices.

We're convinced that the BP/W is the way to go. But I am confused by the lift ratings on the wings. How do you decide how much lift is needed?

I'm leaning towards the Scuba Pro MK25/S600, but what (if any) functional difference is there between the regular and titanium models?

I've not learned enough to even ask about computers yet, although from reading here it seems that the Sunutu is pretty popular.

I know... LDS... but there are only a couple in the area, and not too suprisingly, they will (like any retail shop) make recommendations based on what they sell. I prefer to get a bit more input than that.

Thanks for any input you care to offer.

 

[Web Monkey]

As I have said before, I am extremely new to SCUBA. My wife and I did a resort course and a whopping 8 OW dives, all in Cancun. But that was enough to trigger an addiction. We've done the PADI eLearning and will be finishing our OW course in Cancun this May (90 days from this post...). Sadly, dive opportunities are lacking here in Colorado, so we seem destined to be vacation divers (bottom of the food chain, I know...). We'll just have to win the lottery so we can spend more time on vacation.

I'm making some gear purchases, but since we are poor nurses, not rich doctors, we're being cautious and trying to avoid buyers remorse. So far, I've bought us:
Henderson 5mm exposure suits and boots.
Scuba Pro Jet fins with the spring straps.
St Moritz Momentum dive watches (I don't know nearly enough to buy a comp yet...)
EMT Shears (we have these laying all over the place...)
Titanium dive tools (No, they're not Rambo-sized...)
Masks (Low profile, with Rx lenses in mine)
Snorkels
PADI eDRP

So, that seems to be all the "cheap" stuff. Anything else I need to think about? Or any of it I'm going to regret? Now I'm trying to learn enough about the more expensive gear to make sensible choices.

We're convinced that the BP/W is the way to go. But I am confused by the lift ratings on the wings. How do you decide how much lift is needed?

I'm leaning towards the Scuba Pro MK25/S600, but what (if any) functional difference is there between the regular and titanium models?

I've not learned enough to even ask about computers yet, although from reading here it seems that the Sunutu is pretty popular.

I know... LDS... but there are only a couple in the area, and not too suprisingly, they will (like any retail shop) make recommendations based on what they sell. I prefer to get a bit more input than that.

Thanks for any input you care to offer.

OK...

Titanium doesn't corrode and it's lighter, however if you rinse your stuff well after diving, you won't need a titanium reg.

SP makes very nice regs, although Atomic makes regs that are as good or better, and generally cost a little less and have a 2 year service interval (half the service costs). Also, every single Atomic reg performs nearly identically, with the difference being the materials (Titanium, Brass, Monel, etc.).

Wing lift is a real can of worms.

My personal preference (which you can take or ignore) is that I like a bunch of extra lift so I can float an over-weighted, panicking diver with their head out of the water while dealing with the emergency. I generally end up doing an actual rescue every year or two, and having a bunch of extra lift available lowers my stress level and theirs.

If you don't plan on needing to float a random panicking diver, you can get whatever lift is required to compensate for wetsuit compression and the change in the weight of the gas in your tank.

I'm certain you'll also find wildly different opinions on this topic.

Terry

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Wait...you've done 8 OW dives and aren't done with your OW class? How'd that happen?

1.We're convinced that the BP/W is the way to go. But I am confused by the lift ratings on the wings. How do you decide how much lift is needed?
Simple answer: Calculate it. Figure out how negative all of your equipment is, and get a wing atleast big enough to life that.
SimpleR answer: Just buy a singles wing. Don't get the smallest one, don't get the biggest one. 30 pounds is a pretty common size, I think. Much bigger, and the wing will taco. While that is perfectly diveable, it is less pleasant than a well fitting wing. Some people buy a huge wing so they can lift anchors or whatever...for the reasons that Web Monkey listed, I am a fan of not skimping--if you calculate you need 22 pounds, don't buy a 22 pound wing. Buy a 25 or 30 pound, so you've got extra capacity. But, no need to buy a 45 pound wing so you can float two of yourselfs. I'd much rather take a second to inflate the wing on the person that is panicking, than rely on my huge wing to float us both, but if you have a little bit of extra, it'll certainly help before you can get their wing inflated, while not causing you much annoyance.

2. I'm leaning towards the Scuba Pro MK25/S600, but what (if any) functional difference is there between the regular and titanium models? I'm a fan of cheap regs. I've got a whole assortment of regs from various companies, and the 123scuba.com "$60 specials" work just as well as the twice as expensive Dive Rite/Salvo/Hog ones I've got. I'm pretty hard on my gear, and I've yet to have any problems.

3. I've not learned enough to even ask about computers yet, although from reading here it seems that the Sunutu is pretty popular. I enjoyed my suunto, but again, I'm a fan of cheap. A cheap 1 button hockey puck computer tends to work for a lot of users. I believe Hollis and Oceanic both have several models that are relatively cheap but relatively good computers.

 

[SkimFisher]

So far, I've bought us:
Henderson 5mm exposure suits and boots.
Scuba Pro Jet fins with the spring straps.
St Moritz Momentum dive watches (I don't know nearly enough to buy a comp yet...)
EMT Shears (we have these laying all over the place...)
Titanium dive tools (No, they're not Rambo-sized...)
Masks (Low profile, with Rx lenses in mine)
Snorkels
PADI eDRP

He said snorkels!

I'm j/k man.

I can't speak much on wing size. I will say that I dive a Ranger LTD and its got a 44lb bladder which is more than I'll ever need for the gear I dive (no doubles - even though it will handle doubles to a certain size) and is probably more than you'll ever need for recreational diving.

It sounds like for the type of diving you'll be doing you definitely won't need anything crazy. I'll defer to the experts here on the specifics though.

As far as computers - I know people that like Suunto (I assume that's what you meant) and people that don't. I do know that they are very conservative computers. I dive a Dive Rite Nitek Plus and an Aeris Epic - both are great if you like watch-style computers. I've also used a Zeagle N2ition before which I liked. If you want a wrist mount (hockey puck) that's not a watch style Oceanic's VT3 is also a nice one. It also supports hoseless/air-integration so if you ever want to go hoseless you can - just buy the transmitter.

Just find something you like. That's the important part. You'll find that opinions run rampant around here - that's just my opinion.

 

[rstofer]

It's called a Buoyancy Compensator - it compensates for the change in buoyancy of a wetsuit (which loses buoyancy at depth) and the air in the tank (which gains buoyancy as the tank is used).

Over on the BC forum, there is a 'sticky' calculator (spreadsheet) that will allow you to play with numbers and see where in the 4 stages of the dive your BC needs the buoyancy and how much.

Common case: a 7/8 mm wetsuit which might lose 20# of buoyancy at depth (and I have NO basis for that number) and an HP 100 that will be 8# less buoyant at the beginning of a dive. A 30# wing is adequate. The diver needs to most lift at depth when the tank is full.

Warm water divers need a lot less lift. Drysuit divers? I have no idea. But they also gain lift from inflating their suits.

Doubles? There is twice the change in buoyancy between full tanks and empty tanks.

But the BC only deals with the change in buoyancy. Everything else is handled by properly adjusting the weights.

As to equipment selection/purchase: try the search feature. This only comes up a couple of times per week. The answers never change.

Richard

 

[JohnB47]

I have the Scubapro MK25T/S600T. It is a very nice regulator, but it is hard to justify the cost if you are on a budget. The MK25/S600 will perform just as well. For that matter, you can save even more money by getting an MK17/G250V. The MK17 has a slightly lower maximum airflow, but will deliver more than any of the second stages can use! the only real advantage of the MK25 over the MK17 is the swiveling turret for the low pressure ports. The G250V is a little larger than some of the other second stages, but I understand that it has excellent performance. From the Scubapro advertisements, the A700 second stage seems to be the best performer currently in production.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

Wait...you've done 8 OW dives and aren't done with your OW class? How'd that happen?

Easily. We did the resort course, which allows you to do supervised, shallow dives over the next couple weeks. We would have done more, but I'd already hired a boat for a couple days of fishing while we were there. We spent four days doing 2-tank dives on the reef.

Thanks for the replies. This site is a wealth of information, and I hope to learn enough before our next trip to be able to rent something other than random gear.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

Most OW classes require 4 or 5 OW dives. Why did they let you do 4 days of 2 tank reef dives, and not give you a card? Sounds odd to me.

 

[paddler3d]

I'm making some gear purchases, but since we are poor nurses, not rich doctors, we're being cautious and trying to avoid buyers remorse. So far, I've bought us:
Henderson 5mm exposure suits and boots.
Scuba Pro Jet fins with the spring straps.
St Moritz Momentum dive watches (I don't know nearly enough to buy a comp yet...)
EMT Shears (we have these laying all over the place...)
Titanium dive tools (No, they're not Rambo-sized...)
Masks (Low profile, with Rx lenses in mine)
Snorkels
PADI eDRP



We're convinced that the BP/W is the way to go. But I am confused by the lift ratings on the wings. How do you decide how much lift is needed?

I'm leaning towards the Scuba Pro MK25/S600, but what (if any) functional difference is there between the regular and titanium models?

I've not learned enough to even ask about computers yet, although from reading here it seems that the Sunutu is pretty popular.

Congrats Dirty Dog on getting certified and continuing on!

You have a lot of SCUBA pro stuff in you list. There are a lot of other good brands out there. Don't ignore them.

Functionally you cannot you higher mixes, high FO2 (%O2), in a titanium reg. They are expensive and nice and light, but you don't see tons of them for a reason. Down the road if you progressed more into tech diving, and you're already talking about BP/W, you wouldn't use that titanium reg on high FO2 deco bottles.

Skip in eDRP. I know they are $30, but get plastic tables instead. Look at getting computers. You can pick up a Dive Rite DUO or the TUSA IQ-700 for less than $300 now a days. The are good two gas computers with relatively conservative logarithms, user replaceable batteries, NITROX, so on so forth. Again when you move up the food chain, they can become backup or use them simply in GUAGE mode. Spend the money on Computers vs. watches. It will be a wash. But I see you've already go the watches.

Lift on wings. One of the joys of a BP/W set up is you can have a single BP and multiple wings! It is way cool. If you see you self diving a lot in the warm salt waters of the Caribbean, look at a 'travel' wing. They have 17-20#'s of lift. Don't go bigger than 30# wings. Oxycheq makes nice stuff.

 

[Web Monkey]

Some people buy a huge wing so they can lift anchors or whatever...for the reasons that Web Monkey listed, I am a fan of not skimping--if you calculate you need 22 pounds, don't buy a 22 pound wing. Buy a 25 or 30 pound, so you've got extra capacity. But, no need to buy a 45 pound wing so you can float two of yourselfs. I'd much rather take a second to inflate the wing on the person that is panicking, than rely on my huge wing to float us both, but if you have a little bit of extra, it'll certainly help before you can get their wing inflated, while not causing you much annoyance.

Minor hijack: Most of the emergencies I've handled have been some sort of BC failure where the victim's BC couldn't be immediately inflated (tank valve turned off, dump valve string trapped under a hose or strap, OOA, etc.), so knowing that I have more than enough lift for both me and the victim makes things easier.

OTOH, I actually dive a SCUBAPro Classic (jacket) BC most of the time, so the extra lift doesn't cause any problems. If the OP is going to buy a BP/W, an overly-large wing will wrap around the tank and be harder to manage, so, as you mentioned, they probably shouldn't get it a lot bigger than necessary.

Terry