Gear Purchase advice

[bleat]

Hi all,

I've just done my OW and have been purchasing some gear. I went down to my LDS and spent a fair bit of cash ~$9000USD on a couple of full sets of gear and some fishing equipment. Just as a side note I'm from New Zealand and EVERYTHING we import from the states and/or anywhere else for that matter has one hell of a marketup.

My Problem is this:

I asked for 2 Suunto Vyper's, but apparently there is none in the country so when I was called to say our gear had arrived I found they had ordered Gekkos for us instead. Total cost for each console unit which includes SPG, Gekko, and Compass, and protective cage: $786USD.

I was told that I could try the Gekko's out in the pool to make sure I was happy with them and if not could upgrade to the Cobra for an additional $510USD. That is, I could have a Suunto Cobra for $1300USD.

Anyway I went away and did some research both here on ScubaBoard and talked to several workmates who dive and felt the Cobra was a good purchase. Also on my travels I stumbled across leisurePRO.com who are selling the Cobra + SK7 for $499USD.

Now I've made good use of the search function and read up a fair bit of the pros and cons of buying from leisurePRO and the 'risk' associated with forfeiting my manufactures warranty and all. I approached my LDS owner and said that I've looked into computers and that I'm interested in the Cobra but not for $1300USD when I can buy it at leisurePRO for $499USD. Up until this point the guy had been really helpful and from what I could tell honest, but he started going on about how there is no warranty until I chipped in and informed him they provide their own warranty to which he rebutted with that they might not honor it, and I'm stuffed if anything happens such as a fault or firmware updates- Basically clutching at straws.

In the end I simply told him I am keen to buy it from him but only he if can drop his price because I don't believe a two year manufacturers warranty is worth the $800USD price difference. Hell I could buy a backup computer and still be saving money! Straight out no, the price is firm.

I guess as there is a fair bit of money involved before I commit to buying a couple of Cobra's from LP and tainting my rep at my LDS, I'd like to know if I'm missing anything I might not have thought of. Do you guys think I'm making the right choice?

How often do you need to get your computer serviced? What do they generally do when they service it? Are any parts usually replaced? How much would these parts cost without a warranty?

Any comments would be appriciated.

Cheers

 

[aznlmpulse]

My girl and I both purchased our computers from leisurepro. I've been on about 20 or so dives with my suunto stinger, and her with her mosquito. Needless to say, we're still very happy with our purchase. I was scared about the same things you were, but the shipment came with leisurepro's own warrantee card (which you fill out and send right back to them). Paying $1300 for a cobra is outrageous! you'll have to make your own decision about leisurepro...I've ordered most of my gear (minus my bc) from them, returned a few items, and the only bad thing I can think of is that you'll have to pay for shipping out of pocket if you return anything...and shipping to/from hawaii can cost ALOT.

 

[gregorio]

There are other online shops with manufacturer waranty, including one you will hear a lot of good here. I'm not a specialist but these prices seems really high to me!

 

[jbichsel]

Not being familiar with NZ and what the import duties and/or MRP for AquaLungand family are down there, it still sounds as if there is a bit of BOHICA going on.

Here in the States, MRP for a Cobra w/SK7 is $750 USD which provides a good profit margin. I've seen some LDS that list them at $995 USD, but they are usually willing to come off that. Even with the Quick Disconnect feature MRP is $825 USD.

For you to have spent as much $$ as you have with this guy and him not willing to work with you on the price, makes me wonder just how much you got taken for on your initial purchase. Sorry to say that, but it sounds like you've been had.

I could be wrong.

As to what dive computers need for service, it's really quite minimal. The Cobra has a user replaceable battery, so not much going on.

Protect it from abuse, direct sunlight, over heating. Rinse it well. Have the HP hose, connectors, o-rings, etc. cleaned and serviced annually (unless you're diving enough to warrant more frequent service).

I generally advocate buying from your LDS, but in cases where you're getting shafted and there isn't another LDS to turn to, I guess you have to make some tough choices.

Here's the down side to buying from LP as I see it:

1. LP warranty - I've heard good and bad stories as to how they handle issues.
2. Should anything happen and things do happen, you not only have the shipping costs and delays, but also the delay that LP will have in their dealings with Suunto/AL. I've heard people talk of having gear be gone for MONTHS at a time for service or repair at LP.
3. Local - Your LDS may be a real Richard Cranium (d__k head) when it comes to servicing your gear when he knows you purchased online instead of through him. Of course he is entitled to charge the extra for parts that won't be covered under warranty, but his attitude could enter into the equation also.
4. Local - I know that when I was partners in a dive shop, if someone brought in a piece of equipment that we couldn't get serviced/repaired/replaced in time for their next dive, we would provide a 'loaner' for them to use. If your Cobra needs a software/frimware update, repair/replacement and you bought it from LP, I doubt your LDS will be to keen on this idea if this is even something he does at all.

There may be alternatives to get you the manufacturers warranty. Possible contacting another Suunto/AL dealer elsewhere that will provide a more reasonable price.

P.S. - BOHICA - from my Army days - Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.

 

[vel525]

I purchased my Suunto Vypers from an online company that is based out of Canada maybe? But they have full manufacturers warranty. I saw the site on hear a year or two ago. Might want to also explore that option. This place had by far the best prices (for maintaining the manufacturers warranty).
If I have some time I will try to dig up the name of the shop. Good luck.

 

[scuba4sanity]

I have not used the Vyper and I have not purchased from leisurepro so I can't really speak to either of those points. On the other hand I had exactly the same experience buying an Atmos Elite from my LDS in the US. He had it marked for list price (about $900) and I could find it easily for $660 online. I approached him about that and was rebuffed with the attitude of "Online retailers are all crooks selling questionable merchandise so we won't even discuss them much less compete with them."

I'm normally willing to spend a little extra to support the LDS (10 - 15%) but when the mark up is 30% or more I start to have a problem with that. Especially when we're talking about several hundred dollars... that's enough to buy another piece of equipment or help pay for a dive trip.

I think the problem is that the landscape of the LDS is changing and they haven't figured out how to deal with it yet. Not all internet retailers are crooks, and many internet users are savvy enough to sort out the good ones from the bad. It's hard for the LDS to compete with the internet retailers head to head, so some of them are taking this "head in the sand" approach. In my case my LDS told me that they were not willing to even discuss internet pricing. So when it came time for me to buy a drysuit I found what I wanted online and bought it without even talking to my LDS. I know this wasn't the desired result of their hard line attitude, but there you go.

(I got a drysuit from Divetank.com and was completely pleased with the price and service by the way.)

Since then I have tried with some success to open more of an ongoing dialogue with the LDS owner regarding the internet and the fact that it's not going away. It's not like he doesn't realize the fact, it's just that structure for most LDSs is equipment retail sales makes up a significant portion of their profit. They can't afford to match the prices online and their other items like education and travel don't have the same margins.

In the end I'm not sure what the right answer is, but as a consumer I know that there has to be a value for the money. Being local is worth something, but there are limits. I think the LDS needs to be creative in what they offer that make it worth the extra price. And in those areas where they can't compete they need to shepherd the customer to a reputable online retailer in order to keep their trust and continue to be seen as an advisor and confidant. The one thing the LDS can't afford is to drive the customer away completely.

 

[Damselfish]

I expect to pay extra at the LDS, not that much extra. If I could get a reasonable price from an on-line place with the manufacturers warrenty I would. If not I would happily buy something like a computer from Leisure Pro and take my chances. Heck, buy 2. I always have a backup computer anyway.

Does the manufacturer's US warrenty apply when you're not in the US?

 

[halocline]

Just curious, why the huge mark up in NZ? I think that's the ONLY negative thing I've ever heard about the country! Anyhow, if it's import duty, you may end up paying more than $500 for the cobra from LP. You might check into it, see what you'll have to pay when you get the computer from outside the country. But $1300 at your LDS is what they might call "bold" pricing, I would call it some serious gouging, especially after you spent $9K in that shop? They ought to do better. Are they the only dive shop in the country or something? (Unless your import duty is like 40% or something really weird)

But, I would tempted to forget the whole console idea and get wrist mount gekkos, LP has those really cheap, and a simple SPG on a 24" hose. You'll save lots of money, and you'll probably like diving with a wrist computer way more, maybe not at first, but once you get some experience you won't need to look at you SPG nearly as often as your computer. With the short HP hose you can clip the SPG on your left d-ring and it's always nice and streamlined.

 

[bleat]

Cheers for the advice everyone.

For you to have spent as much $$ as you have with this guy and him not willing to work with you on the price, makes me wonder just how much you got taken for on your initial purchase. Sorry to say that, but it sounds like you've been had.

...


3. Local - Your LDS may be a real Richard Cranium (d__k head) when it comes to servicing your gear when he knows you purchased online instead of through him. Of course he is entitled to charge the extra for parts that won't be covered under warranty, but his attitude could enter into the equation also.
4. Local - I know that when I was partners in a dive shop, if someone brought in a piece of equipment that we couldn't get serviced/repaired/replaced in time for their next dive, we would provide a 'loaner' for them to use. If your Cobra needs a software/frimware update, repair/replacement and you bought it from LP, I doubt your LDS will be to keen on this idea if this is even something he does at all.

...

P.S. - BOHICA - from my Army days - Bend Over, Here It Comes Again.

I can definatly see where you are comming from in regards to being had. I checked around and prices are all really similar across NZ. There are simply too many middlemen and combined with the drop in our dollar imports are really expensive. Found the same thing comparing NZ and US prices last week when I had to buy an electric dog collar - A non-waterproof, only shower resistant unit that's only good for 80metres, retails here for $195USD. You can buy everything online in the states and get it sent here much cheaper including S&H, insurance, as well as taxes - It's robbery.

What I was concerned about with returning the computers and asking for a discount was that their attitude to us would change, and as our LDS that did seem like a bit of a problem, although ultimatly if that's how they are going to act I don't want a relationship and I'll simply go to another shop. When I spoke with the guy the other day regarding the price he made a comment afterwards about how their approach to us would change or something so I guess we'll just see what happens. Prior to this they were being very helpful with the same guy offering to lend us his personal 83cuft tank to see if that would be more comfortable for my partner instead of the 105cuft we were looking at for her. But as I said to him, there is still a bit of gear we're interested in, so we'll see.

LOL - BOHICA - Had to look that one up!

 

[bleat]

I would tempted to forget the whole console idea and get wrist mount gekkos, LP has those really cheap, and a simple SPG on a 24" hose. You'll save lots of money, and you'll probably like diving with a wrist computer way more, maybe not at first, but once you get some experience you won't need to look at you SPG nearly as often as your computer. With the short HP hose you can clip the SPG on your left d-ring and it's always nice and streamlined.

I was thinking about a watch instead of it on a console but thought I'd start out with the console and move on once I see what I'm getting out my diving/how often I'm going etc.

Haha - Another bad thing about NZ is that we have a lot of really bad weather!