For a newbie a jacket style or a wing style

[LadySilk]

hi,
I have hard time to decide whether I should go for aqualung lotus (country distrubutor did not get i3) or a jacket style bcd.
I am a newbie and get my aow , rescue and efr while havind my dive master internship on a boat.
Asmost of women as my size "xs" says go for backplate I am a little confused, because I have never used any wing style and have no chance to use if I do not buy myself

 

[АлександрД]

Try sidemount, and (possible) than you will forget about jacket and wings BCD (it was a joke, but as talking here: "every joke has part of joke" )

You have to decide - where you will need more comfort - in the water or on the surface.
In the water - wing style. On the surface - jacket style.
That`s all.

 

[lowviz]

...//... Asmost of women as my size "xs" says go for backplate ...

I would tend to disagree with that. You might get a better answer if you post that concern in the women's forum.

I dive a heavy doubles backplate, a single tank Freedom Plate (also a backplate) and a Scubapro Classic jacket. I bought a Scubapro KnightHawk (again jacket but back-inflate) for my OW and AOW. I also have a sidemount rig. My point is, I'll dive any of it and be happy as I've fussed enough with each to have them comfortable underwater.

From my experience, when starting out it is really hard to tell which of two rigs is better. For me, it was more like dealing with all the new gear. I couldn't really make meaningful preferences until I got comfortable and that took a while.

And by the way, you can get back-inflate jackets that act and feel more like a backplate and wing. It isn't an easy choice and if you stick with the sport that won't be the last buoyancy compensator you buy. My humble advice, start easy and buy a jacket that you actually tried out in the water.

 

[Blasto]

Sidemount is relatively advanced and a lot of dive ops won't want you hogging 2 tanks...

Wing wins hands down. A jacket is easier to get comfortable with on the surface, but once you're familiar with the wing style, and if you can swim, it's just as good. Since you're doing divemaster, you clearly can swim, and you'll be using your BC enough to need the most comfortable one.

The only real question is BP/W (backplate+wing) versus hybrid (back inflate).

Aqualung Lotus is a hybrid - back inflation, but a soft back. The drawback is that a soft back just isn't as comfortable as having a stiff metal backplate there. The releases of jacket and hybrid (back inflate) BC are more laborious and not as comfortable underwater as BP/W harnesses.
If you're going to be teaching beginners (e.g. plan on going OWSI, or just assisting a lot), and not doing it with an advanced agency or shop that goes full BP/W, you'll need to use that jacket/hybrid style, similar to what the students will have.

If your DM training is meant for leading dives or just personal skills development - not teaching - then a full BP/W system with a webbing harness makes sense. A hard metal (aluminum or SS) back spreads the weight of your ballast and generally the forces very well across your body. They're infinitely adjustable and you'll be able to fit and equip it just right.

The Freedom Plate lowviz mentioned is outright outstanding for comfort in single tank diving; its stainless weight means you might not need any lead weights at all. Going with a BP/W and harness style can be a bit intimidating at first, though, because it's different from what you've used before, and customizability means doing the customization, but it's not hard to learn, and it's what divers tend to ultimately settle with. (Definitely not all, but many that develop their diving. It's universal in non-SM tec and favored by many advanced rec divers.)

 

[diversteve]

You don't want an I3 - it's an expensive repair bill waiting to happen. Also it's non-standard so you can't teach standard oral inflation since it doesn't have a standard inflator rescue technique. So it's good you can't get one.

Know that a minority here on SB always suggest a bp/w as optimal - and in certain situations they're 100% right.

However given your goals it's important to know that you can only simulate dropping weights since the backplate will be sized - esp. for you being xs - so that you won't need any extra weight while diving.

With the Lotus which has a weight system you can demo dropping weight - in a pool environment to potential students.

As a working DM you'll often need to carry extra things for student use - an SMB to mark the class progress to the boat or signal pickup, extra weights so that when a student is underweighted you can fix it u/w, likely a slate, some sort of student signaling device etc.

So you'll need pockets...you can add them to a bp/w - either bolt on or in in sort of harness - some people add them to their wetsuit - or get them with the Lotus - your choice. You can also clip them off to the webbing on a bp/w.

Another consideration is who you'll be working for. They may want you in their gear if they're trying promote certain brands they sell - students often buy what they see their instructor using.

It's not always because it's the best either - some shops it's because the margin is better for the shop sales. Some shops offer staff discounts for those purchases also - or use of their rental gear during classes. One of my good friends is a DIR Instructor - she dives a bp/w as her personal gear. When she teaches she uses a shop rental back-inflate jacket - once per class session she demo's her bp/w as an option b4 the students buy gear.

For the most part shops make much of their money by selling new gear to new students during or just after class sessions.

Some things to consider given your stated goals. Also know that a backplate is often steel so quite heavy as it replaces any weights you would normally get on the boat at the dive site. The Lotus wouldn't be any better for travel though - it's fairly heavy also plus you'll need weight to compensate for it's inherent flotation - the biggest reason to get a bp/w is so you don't need additional weight.

I dive a Zeagle - it's a soft backplate back inflate BCD, I don't have any of the stability or comfort issues the previous poster alluded to. I actually prefer it over a steel bp for comfort since I don't wish to dive every dive with a steel plate resting on my shoulder blades - I only dive in warm water in a t-shirt or 1mm dive skin. Also try the harness with a tank installed - I personally did not find it nearly as comfortable. You will be spending a lot of time in the rig in the water shepherding a group of students.

You'll also likely need someone to initially setup the bp/w for your use (adjust, cuth the straps etc. - I assume your dealer will help with that?

 

[diversteve]

and it's what divers tend to ultimately settle with.

Right or wrong that's simply not true. If it was the majority of divers would be seen in one and the majority of dive manufacturers and retailers predominantly sell them - instead of the myriad of jackets, back-nflates and hybrids you see in every mfr's product line...

Obviously some of that is marketing - also margins for the reseller play a role in what they promote.

 

[Blasto]

If it was the majority of divers would be seen in one and the majority of dive manufacturers and retailers predominantly sell them - instead of the myriad of jackets, back-nflates and hybrids you see in every mfr's product line...

The majority of divers are seen in rental gear... But when limiting the selection to older divers, or generally 1K+ dive non-instructors, BP/W become considerably more common than among the whole diver population. At least in my experience, YMMV.

Jackets are a decidedly more lucrative business. You sell a diver a jacket, you've just piqued their interest to buy the newer cooler more expensive model you'll come up with in a couple years. You sell a diver a backplate, they buy ten feet of webbing every five years.

Not really suitable for teaching, so if it's DM->OWSI, a hybrid is a better investment, but otherwise they're at least worth strong consideration. Aluminum or I-shaped/cut-out steel BP can be really light. If you decide it's not for you - no worries, hybrids come close in comfort for many people.

 

[chillyinCanada]

+1 for everything diversteve said!

 

[LadySilk]

Thanks for advices.
The place I am going to work does not sell any stuff (Usually dive schools does not sell any equipment , and not rent, if you have no equipment they are giving you, so boat has untouched xxs jacket perfect fit to me).
In my country hybrid or backplate is really not popular.( Shop is not going to cut or assemble anything) So with crazy custom policies and crazy distrubitors I have only two choices scubapro hydros and lotus. I liked lotus better and as mentioned it is hybrid seems like jacket. I checked its pockets when they are not folded, I felt spacier than inflated jacket's pockets and it seems fine to my rookie eyes And I liked to be tidy I liked octo pocket and stuff. I have no option for pool only sea and no shop would let me in.
Between jacket and hydros and lotus, I loved the lotus' fit better. And I think I am not for steel back plate , sounds a little hard on the back, but as I have never used one I can not say a thing.
I usually use 5 kg for 5mm and 4 for 3mm full suit.
I am planning to be a guide, at least after 6 or 8 months. Because here after I got my padi dive master and cmas 3* (I have to get cmas, country regulations) , I need to attend a course and pass an exam to be a guide in Turkey. (We have some crazy regulations )

Thank you really much for advices and your time.

 

[Oz Chris]

I have the Aqualung Dimension non-i3 (the guys equivalent to the Lotus), and my partner dives an XXS Mares Kaila Jacket (they didn’t really try the Aqualung as it was a bit out of their price range, and the Mares fit really well - oh and was on special).

A couple of comments:

The Aqualung harness system is very comfortable. The waist strap cinches really well and does all the work in the water. There’s no cummerbund, just the webbing which I definitely prefer. The shoulder straps are kind of there for show in the water (similar to how a BP&W harness works). Like all BCDs without a crotch strap I sometimes find myself pulling it down in the water, but less now that I have found the optimal position for the waist strap.

The Aqualung pockets are not too bad. In the folded position they’ll hold a knife, finger spool, GoPro, torch etc. Anything bigger and yes you need to fold the flap down. In my eyes it ruins the lines of the BCD, but right now it’s the only place I can keep my DSMB (thigh pocket is on order).

Pockets on a jacket BCD, at least on the Mares, are a bit of a joke. They’re fine when it’s not inflated, but when inflated you can get things in and out. We even struggle getting the weight pockets in when the jacket is inflated.

Despite that my partner loves it - it’s the first BCD they’ve worn that actually fits their short back and smaller upper body (not suggesting you get a jacket, just noting as someone else did, what matters in the end is does your BC fit you properly and are you comfortable in it).