First Regulator Set Purchase

[Tigershark007]

Hi everyone, I was wondering if you all can help me decide on a brand and regulator model to start with. I live in Northwest IA, near Lake Okoboji and that is where I will be diving primarily but am looking to dive at Bonne Terre Mine sometime next year, and other great diving locations through my life. For now, I will be diving only in the Spring-Fall Seasons, due to not having taken a dry suit course yet, but am wanting to get up there to ice dive as well. The water temperature of Lake Okoboji according to http://nwis.waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/...od=&begin_date=2014-08-10&end_date=2015-08-10, water temperature during the spring through fall ranges between 40*F and 80*F. During the winter it gets pretty close to Freezing around 33*F-34*F. So I am looking for a regulator brand model that will work in all these conditions, so I don't have to buy a whole another reg set if I don't have to specifically for ice diving. My father says Scubapro is the way to go for any regulator and I do like them a lot as well, since I have used a couple during my past dives. But I also found out recently that Atomic is made from 2 engineers that worked for Scubapro and left to start their own company. They build pretty similar to Scubapro but are a bit more streamlined and simpler to use. The models that I came across that I like and thought may work are ScubaPro MK17/A700, MK25 EVO/A700, and Atomic Z3 sealed swivel regulator. As I said I like the MK17 due to it being a sealed diaphragm first staged and designed for cold water. What I was confused about with MK25 EVO is it says that they are 30% more reliable then the MK25 first stage for cold water. But couldn't find what temperatures of Cold water it was referring too? Is it 50*F that a lot of people consider cold water or is supported to 40*F? The Atomic Z3 Sealed Swivel regulator is also a sealed first stage as well, but it's at least couple hundred dollars cheaper then the other 2. With Atomic they all seam to breathe the same no matter what regulator you get, as I read it to be the Z1 model up to T3 model. Since they all use the Brass/Stainless materials, except T3 uses Titanium. I also saw they both have limited lifetime warranty, and that atomic only has to get serviced every 2 years/300 dives. While Scubapro has to be every year, for the warranty to stay intact. Plus the parts for life only applies if I buy, BC/REG/OCTO all at the same time. Any thoughts to help me figure out the best regulator setup for my dive area would be greatly appreciated. Also any suggestions on Octos/Pressure Guages to go with Regulator would be appreciated! Thanks!

 

[KevinNM]

I own a pair of atomic regs, but haven't dove them yet (next week...). However the normal Atomic version is not environmentally sealed, you have to get that kit installed. Unless weight matters a LOT to you I'd recommend against Titanium based on cost. It's very pricy.

There are a lot of great regs at reasonable prices out there and I don't feel I know enough to recommend any one. I would suggest being very careful before buying the top end of a vendors line, there is often very little if any real advantage over their midrange regs.

I'd suggest you talk to the people doing the ice diving and see what they are using if that is where you want to go. If they are diving tech rigs then buy DIN regs and yoke adapters and buy a second 2nd stage reg vs an octo so you don't have to buy all new regs when you get there.

 

[buddhasummer]

I'd be looking at a sealed diaphragm reg if you're going to be diving in very cold waters. Look at HOG, Apeks, AL and SP. the last three have good dealer networks but prices can be high. HOG is cheaper but a much smaller company so servicing could be problematic depending where you're located. I'm not from the U.S. All Apeks regs, save the Flight, are sealed. The SP MK17 is SPs top of the line diaphragm first stage. AL legend range and some Titans are sealed. A Titan XL is a Big Bang for the buck but am unsure as to its current availability, I think it's been replaced by the "Core". There are many reviews on regs here on SB, find a reg you like the look of and do a wee search or post back. Good luck.

 

[diversteve]

Look real hard at Poseidon also if you have a dealer in your area also. Here's why:

TECHNICAL FEATURES:
> Trimix, nitrox, oxygen and air
> 95% Helium mix could be used
> 100% O2 Certified
> 200 m / 656 ft approval Norwegian Norsok U101 standard
> Approved to cold water standard, EN250
> Approved for use under ice down to -1,6 °C / 29.12 °F without CWD kit
> Unique internal Thermo Dynamic Anti-freeze system (TDA)
> 5 LP and 2 HP-ports



Poseidon XSTREAM Deep MK3 DIN Regulator, Black 0100-000 - $719 in this configuration.

I personally don't dive under ice but I believe you can overbreathe a piston regulator while doing so causing it to freeze up.

 

[Nasser]

You really can't go wrong with any of the brands you listed... they are all reliable and good quality regulators. I've been diving SP regs for quite a while and they have preformed very well over the years with zero issues. But I dive in warm water so I can't speak to their reliability in cold water diving.

The best choice would be a reg that is within your budget and has a dealer/ service center in your area. If you plan on doing a lot of traveling you may also want to look at the manufacturers international network of dealers and service centers. My choice for your type of diving would probably be APEKS.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

From what I understand piston regs are not the best for really cold water. There are kits to prevent freeze up but these are bandaids to a system that is flawed by design to use in extreme cold environments. Most people that ice dive use regs that are specifically designed for ice diving.
The Scubapro Mk17 was designed for the European market and very cold water.
There are several other brands that have sealed diaphragm regs. BTW, a regular diaphragm reg will work too just by design in cold water, but ice is a step beyond that. For that you want the diaphragm to be dry so it needs an extra seal.
Probably the best option is the Swedish reg mentioned above, that's about as good as it gets.

I'm not going to tell you what to do, but if it was me I wouldn't even consider a piston reg, certainly not a MK25 or other flow through piston design if you're going to go near ice. We just had a discussion here a while ago about pistons in cold water (because I was curious myself), and it was concluded that the flow through is the most freeze up prone reg out there.

 

[ZzzKing]

Read The United States Navy Experimental Diving Unit: Testing in Antartica regarding the extreme mentioned above. The U.S. Navy Dive Manual also has a list of regs that are approved for cold water use.

 

[beaverdivers]

water temperature during the spring through fall ranges between 40*F and 80*F. During the winter it gets pretty close to Freezing around 33*F-34*F. So I am looking for a regulator brand model that will work in all these conditions, so I don't have to buy a whole another reg set if I don't have to specifically for ice diving. My father says Scubapro is the way to go for any regulator and I do like them a lot as well, since I have used a couple during my past dives. But I also found out recently that Atomic is made from 2 engineers that worked for Scubapro and left to start their own company. They build pretty similar to Scubapro but are a bit more streamlined and simpler to use. The models that I came across that I like and thought may work are ScubaPro MK17/A700, MK25 EVO/A700, and Atomic Z3 sealed swivel regulator. As I said I like the MK17 due to it being a sealed diaphragm first staged and designed for cold water. What I was confused about with MK25 EVO is it says that they are 30% more reliable then the MK25 first stage for cold water. But couldn't find what temperatures of Cold water it was referring too? Is it 50*F that a lot of people consider cold water or is supported to 40*F?

The new MK25 EVO will be fine for 40 degree water, but you may want to go with the MK17 if you are going to dive in the winter ( 33 - 34 degrees ).

 

[ams511]

Read The United States Navy Experimental Diving Unit: Testing in Antartica regarding the extreme mentioned above. The U.S. Navy Dive Manual also has a list of regs that are approved for cold water use.

I have read some of the data on the Antarctica testing. One point that was brought out is that minor changes in regulator design can affect cold water performance. For example, a newer model of the same regulator with a compact second stage could perform worse in cold water than the older model with a larger second stage. So you cannot blindly follow the recommendations of the Navy unless you are sure the regulator is the same.

 

[Tigershark007]

Thanks all for all the replies! That has helped a lot! After careful consideration, I think I may not due the Ice Diving during the winter and only dive through Spring - Fall. Since some days here in Northwest Iowa, the windchill has gotten to -30 at times, a few times during the winter, and we get a lot of snow some years. So most likely, won't go out during that. But from what everyone mentioned and what I mentioned in the first post, about diving in 40*F-80*F water, would would you recommend, that would also work at Bonne Terre Mine, and other wonderful dive destinations in the world! Thanks for the great information everyone! I'll continue to research to help me determine the best reg along with all the wonderful information you guys provide! I really appreciate it!