Financial planning, compressor

[formernuke]

It's time to start saving for a compressor.

Before you guys start I'm not doing this to save money, I'm doing it because closest shop is 45 minutes one way and sometimes I have had to turn down dives because I couldn't get tanks filled.

With that out of the way;

I want to set up a single large bottle bank at 4500 run through a reducer that I can set for the pressure depending on which tanks I'm filling.

The compressor and bank will be in my basement and then the gages and reducer on my first floor directly above. I do dive nitrox sometimes, right now the plan is to not fill my own nitrox but sense everyone up here does partial pressure blending so I need to maintain the tanks O2 clean.

What kind of compressor should I be looking at?

What should I budget for lines, gages etc?

 

[2airishuman]

It's time to start saving for a compressor.

Before you guys start I'm not doing this to save money, I'm doing it because closest shop is 45 minutes one way and sometimes I have had to turn down dives because I couldn't get tanks filled.

Get more dive cylinders. It will cost less and be less work. Figure out a convenient way to move them such as a cart or two wheeler. Find a dive shop that is convenient to get cylinders in and out of, where you don't have to carry them up the steps and down the sidewalk.

I typically get a dozen cylinders filled at once.

Compressors make sense for situations where fills are not reasonably available at all, such as the many inland lake locations where it is a six hour drive to the nearest dive shop, or if you have an island cabin on Lake of the Woods, or a yacht.

I want to set up a single large bottle bank at 4500 run through a reducer that I can set for the pressure depending on which tanks I'm filling.

That drives costs up unnecessarily and doesn't make sense unless you're operating a dive-shop scale. At the fill rates you'll achieve on single-phase power you want a compressor with two fill hoses, so you can switch from a just-filled cylinder to a still-mostly-empty cylinder in an unhurried fashion.

The compressor and bank will be in my basement and then the gages and reducer on my first floor directly above. I do dive nitrox sometimes, right now the plan is to not fill my own nitrox but sense everyone up here does partial pressure blending so I need to maintain the tanks O2 clean.

Don't do that, you want to be able to monitor the compressor and drain condensate while you're filling.

There is no official way to build a filtration system that produces O2 clean air. All such systems are inherently one bad O-ring away from an explosion.

What kind of compressor should I be looking at?

You should be looking at compressors that either come from a reputable source with a warranty or that are demonstrably in working condition with known history. In either case you should verify that parts are readily available at reasonable prices. Many older compressors have critical parts that simply aren't available, such as intercoolers for older Bauers. Some otherwise fine compressors like the Rix are prohibitively expensive to rebuild once they're run out. You will want to avoid older three-stage machines that are rated only 3000 PSI because they cannot fill a modern HP cylinder.

You will want to be sure that the compressor works on whatever power you have available, which in practice means avoiding larger 7.5 hp and up machines because they are three phase.

You may find that the portable used compressor market is thin enough that you are better off buying a new machine.

What should I budget for lines, gages etc?

Look at the August Industries web site -- they have prices.

If you go for the Dive Shop Look then you can easily spend $2000 on lines, valves, gauges, whips, cascade fittings, and regulators.

If you limit yourself to two whips and a gauge you can maybe get by for $500 with careful shopping.

 

[formernuke]

I typically get a dozen cylinders filled at once.

Won't fit in my car.

I'm not pumping O2, just filtering the air to maintain the tanks clean

 

[Cio]

Some good info above.

Don't bother with the 4.5K they are expensive and you don't need it.

You shouldn't need two hoses on these small compressors I use a diesel junior two and I can switch from one tank to another without much pressure rise. (it won't shut off anyway, it just vents at 5K

There is a such thing as O2 safe air from a oiled compressor, Bauer simply shortens the filter change interval which insures oil levels are near none existent.

Full disclosure, I work for a Bauer dealer.

Buy a Bauer, here's why.

Your only gonna find two good manufacturers of oiled, reasonably priced compressor heads, Bauer and Gardner Denver.
Bauer produces the pumps and packages them for sale by their distributors.
GD only sells the bare pumps to packagers. Most of these packagers used Bauers until Bauer stopped selling bare pumps.
GDs are not inherently bad pumps, but GD buys compressor companies every other day and the bean counters do dumb things to save a nickel here and there.
You will find some savings in buying a packaged GD but you will likely not feel like it is worth it after some hassles, parts availability is not as good, sometimes mind blowingly insane, it can be frustrating.
I have built machines with GD pumps, our company services GD pumps so I'm not making this up. GD does have solutions no one else does and so their equipment gets used when appropriate. GD is not horrible I just think for the small difference in price, its easily worth it to go Bauer and not have to worry about anything.

Bauer junior 2 is a decent little guy and not too expensive, you need to let it rest between every tank and can't fill a bank system from it, which should be acceptable for most. These are not full featured units, they are basically a manually operated machine, you need to watch them and shut down when full. Bonus, you can get a gas or diesel on and have air anywhere you want.

The Oceanus in the next one up and is about the same except you can run it harder and it fills a bit faster.

 

[Brant Emery]

Have you checked your local fire station? Many have their own compressors and will fill tanks.

 

[Rose Robinson]

It's time to start saving for a compressor.

Before you guys start I'm not doing this to save money, I'm doing it because closest shop is 45 minutes one way and sometimes I have had to turn down dives because I couldn't get tanks filled.

With that out of the way;

I want to set up a single large bottle bank at 4500 run through a reducer that I can set for the pressure depending on which tanks I'm filling.

The compressor and bank will be in my basement and then the gages and reducer on my first floor directly above. I do dive nitrox sometimes, right now the plan is to not fill my own nitrox but sense everyone up here does partial pressure blending so I need to maintain the tanks O2 clean.

What kind of compressor should I be looking at?

What should I budget for lines, gages etc?

formernuke,

I'm with @2airishuman, buy one or two more tanks, as your reason, does not, in my opinion, justify the cost/service/maintenance/routine gas quality inspection of a compressor system.

Two LP or HP large capacity steel tanks will cost approx. $1000. if purchased new.

A new compressor (small portable)/fill/bank system could be in the $7000./$10,000. range, and I don't believe, they are capable of filling a K-cylinder to 4500 PSI.

That will buy a lot of breathing gas/tanks.

Sounds like, what you really need is a little better ''prior planning''.

You may also want to check your zoning bylaws, as operating a 4500 PSI compressor system in a residential neighborhood, may be prohibited.

Compressor rooms also generate lots of heat/noise, insulation/sound deadening/explosion proofing/exhaust ventilation is also very important.

A lot more involved here than, ''I'd like to have a compressor''.

Rose.

 

[grf88]

I don't think there are many of us who have their own compressor system do it to save money, it is much more a question of convenience and to a certain degree control. For personal use it is difficult to justify the cost of a storage bank but again some will do this for convenience. I have a second hand RIX which gives me great confidence that I am getting air free from oil and most other contaminants without the necessity for quarterly air analysis. I also have it set up for continuous blending and the fact that it does not use oil reduces my concerns with this despite the fact the manufacturer does not approve it for other than air. I tend to be someone who prefers to do things for himself even when it does not necessarily means saving money.

 

[formernuke]

I'm going to repeat this.

MORE TANKS WILL NOT HELP, I CANNOT FIT MORE TANKS ON MY CAR AND HAVE NO PLACE TO STORE THEM AT MY HOUSE.

I'm well aware of the maintenance of compressors and swore I would never get one. Things have changed.

 

[Rose Robinson]

I'm going to repeat this.

MORE TANKS WILL NOT HELP, I CANNOT FIT MORE TANKS ON MY CAR AND HAVE NO PLACE TO STORE THEM AT MY HOUSE.

I'm well aware of the maintenance of compressors and swore I would never get one. Things have changed.

formernuke,

You're not being clear, if there is no room to store a couple more tanks, where is the room coming from to place/store the compressor/K bank cylinder.

And, how many tanks are you planning to travel in your car with, for a day of diving.

Even a Smart Car can be loaded up, if you're travelling alone.

I think a little more insight into your dilemma is required.

And, a compressor system is not necessarily the answer.

I have a close friend who lives in a small two level penthouse condo, one upstairs double closet is dedicated to dive gear, rebreather included, and all the tanks are in a parking level storage room. there's no room for anything, but with a little careful planning, lots of room for everything.

Rose.

 

[formernuke]

The compressor will go in the basement also closer to the electric wires that I will tie into. Tanks are kept on my first floor in the dive gear/ workout room. I know running the lines adds cost. I want to do the tiny bank as it makes filling nice and slow easier. Plus I have tanks of all three pressures.. Once I get it full I won't empty it just fill tanks from it and then repress it up.

This is all convenience not to save money.