Even I Cringed A Little

[Tropicalwolf]

Talking to a longtime friend, I found out that he has dove, but is not certified. This friend has dove several times over the years in Florida. He has never had a problem getting an air fill. We have never dove together.

While I have no love for PADI (my cert agency), there are other great cert agencies out there. I made the suggestion to him to get certified, but he brushed it off as not necessary. Doing the type of "fair weather diving" he described, I found it difficult to disagree with his argument about not needing a cert. The "founders" of the sport were not certified, after all. And no, this is not some young kid. We are talking about a guy pushing 60.

The industry polices itself, or does it?

Any thoughts?

 

[SnorkelLA]

Whether or not someone is certified or not certified doesn't dictate if they are a safe or qualified diver.

Now- the air fills on the other hand...

 

[drrich2]

Lacking certification can prevent one from being accepted as a customer at dive op.s, some dive shops, etc...

Yes, I'm used to having to demonstrate certification to get an air fill (though the LDS has me in their system, so I needn't pull a card every time). Then again, you can buy yourself a proper compressor if you want to.

There is a point beyond which we have no right to 'police' the choices of competent free-willed adults. I recognize the rights of dive shops to deny air fills, quarry owners to deny access & charter op.s to refuse to accept an uncertified client.

Some people will do fine without the 'Big Brother' looking out for them. As for the rest, well, not to sound uncaring, but part of the cost of freedom is letting Darwin take a few. It is what it is.

Richard.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

You can drive a car without a license, hang glide with no prior instruction, shack up with your partner for years and have a couple kids without getting married, and never buckle your seat belt when in a car. And you can dive without being certified. All of these things are fine if nothing goes wrong, but when something does go wrong: Y you crash your car, pile up your hanglider, split up with your lover, or get tossed from a rolling vehicle,the mess is a lot bigger and harder to clean up than if you follow the conventions of society. So too with diving. Be a maverick, and you are on you own in every way. That's why reputable dive shops won't give you air, and reputable dive ops won't let you dive on their boat. It's a choice. It's a bad choice, in my opinion.
DivemasterDennis

 

[Scuba_Noob]

Since he's a longtime friend, I would have a serious sit-down discussion with him about the dangers of diving. There are at least 75-100 fatalities per year from diving in the US/Canada (according to DAN), with thousands more incidents - many of them relate to divers going beyond their training. It's not an activity where you can be careless.

Even if he doesn't get convinced to get certified, you can at the very minimum ingrain in him important lessons and tips. Maybe bring along an instructor (that won't try to market him anything). Good luck!

 

[Rhodesaz]

Every resort I've been to in the Caribbean, (from Mexico to Utila) the first thing I had to produce was my cert card.

DivemasterDennis hit the nail on the head.

 

[HowardE]

As a guy who has lived in Florida for pretty much the last 10 years...

I know plenty of places (not naming any) where you can fill tanks without a certification card. As a matter of fact, I can only think of one shop that requires it to the point of posting it on the front door. Even at shops where I'm not a known customer, I haven't been asked to produce a c-card to fill a tank.

In Florida... enough people have boats, and there are enough shore dives, that one could dive a lifetime's worth of dives without setting foot on a charter boat.

Lack of a card doesn't mean lack of skills, discipline, or training. It just means that they (the diver) didn't go through a certification agency and pay for a card.

Having a "heart to heart" talk with this person won't do anything to change his opinion of this (most likely), it would probably only alienate your lifelong friendship with them.

 

[freewillie]

What DMDennis said.

Simply having a license does not equate to skill or experience. It only certifies that you took a class and passed whatever minimum skills were required to pass. If you are a klutz then you are still a klutz. You can only become graceful and skillful through experience and practice.

Imagine what you would tell a police officer if you are stopped for a traffic violation. "I've been driving for years officer, why do I need a license?" Can you imagine what would happen to the dive shop if diver drowned and they didn't have a record of at least checking the diver's certification? I keep my AOW card in my wallet but my OW card in my dive bag just in case I forget my wallet. (I've done that once) I'm actually more surprised if I'm diving with a new dive operation and don't get asked than when I'm asked.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

If he doesn't know about dive physiology, I would suggest giving him you Open Water book to read. Other than that I would wish him well. I've known divers who dived for decades without getting certified. I got certified in 1989 and have only been asked to show my card for a fill once.

 

[jewelofnile69]

As a guy who has lived in Florida for pretty much the last 10 years...

I know plenty of places (not naming any) where you can fill tanks without a certification card. As a matter of fact, I can only think of one shop that requires it to the point of posting it on the front door. Even at shops where I'm not a known customer, I haven't been asked to produce a c-card to fill a tank.

In Florida... enough people have boats, and there are enough shore dives, that one could dive a lifetime's worth of dives without setting foot on a charter boat.

Lack of a card doesn't mean lack of skills, discipline, or training. It just means that they (the diver) didn't go through a certification agency and pay for a card.

Having a "heart to heart" talk with this person won't do anything to change his opinion of this (most likely), it would probably only alienate your lifelong friendship with them.

I actually have to agree with Howard here. Think about Abraham Lincoln. If you heard about his credentials today (not knowing he was Abraham Lincoln) you (and all of us) would likely say he doesn't deserve to be president of the United States. But then you find out more about the situation. So, having a cert card doesn't mean your divemaster SHOULD have certified you but did. Is your "friend" a responsible diver? I also agree with Howard that having a "heart to heart" may alienate him and not cause any good.

---------- Post Merged at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:45 PM ----------

If he doesn't know about dive physiology, I would suggest giving him you Open Water book to read. Other than that I would wish him well. I've known divers who dived for decades without getting certified. I got certified in 1989 and have only been asked to show my card for a fill once.

And this, too!