Empress of Ireland

[Bill Fisher]

I just finished reading Kevin McMurray's DARK DESCENT. Great book about the wreck of the Empress of Ireland. I throughly enjoyed it. But I have 2 questions that puzzle me....

1) Page 217..."I dropped over the side of the hull, found the brass letters spelling out Empress of Ireland, then dropped down to the anchor." as quoted from K. McMurray about a 2002 dive he did. But on page 142 there is a picture of Dany St-Cyr with all of the letters from the Empress of Ireland mounted on a huge display board that is in his backyard (or somewhere on land) This photo is dated 1999.

What letters was McMurray describing, if they were supposedly removed in 1999 ???

2) Page 110. John Reekie finds himself in the engine room of the wreck. He sees what appears to be the ships telegraph...after dusting off the silt he confirms that it is indeed the Empress' telegraph with the last order of FULL SPEED AHEAD typed in. This would have been the last order given from the Captain to the engine room, correct?

After the tragic sinking and over 800 passengers going down with the ship, both ships claimed the collision was the other ships fault. After the trial, the Canadian court decided that Toftens (Storstad) was at fault by not waking the sleeping Captain Kendall in the event of fog. Toftens didn't do this...and subsequently collided with the Empress.

Maybe I'm reading into this too much. But it seems that John Reekie's dive into the engine room of the Empress provided the information, that had it been available at the time of the trial, could have implicated the Empress of Ireland?

Dosen't this solve the mystery of whose fault the collision was?
Does FULL SPEED AHEAD on the telegraph not fault the Empress of Ireland? The Empress claimed to have cut all engines because they lost sight of the Storstad in the heavy fog...

Just curious if anyone has any comments about this tragic and mysterious wreck?

Also, have any of you scubaboard folks had the pleasure of diving the Empress?
If so, I'd love to hear about it...
Bill

 

[Spectre]

When in doubt; go to the source. The following reply is from Kevin:

I just finished reading Kevin McMurray's DARK DESCENT. Great book about the wreck of the Empress of Ireland. I throughly enjoyed it.

Glad you liked it.

What letters was McMurray describing, if they were supposedly removed in 1999 ???

Dany retrieved the letters from the stern. I was referring to the
port-side bow letters. Guess I wasn't clear enough on that matter.

This would have been the last order given from the Captain to the engine room, correct?

Maybe. See below.

After the tragic sinking and over 800 passengers going down with the
ship, both ships claimed the collision was the other ships fault. After the trial, the Canadian court decided that Toftens (Storstad) was at fault by not waking the sleeping Captain Kendall in the event of fog. Toftens didn't do this...and subsequently collided with the Empress.

Subject to conjecture. Would the captain have been able to save the
ship? We'll never know.

Maybe I'm reading into this too much. But it seems that John Reekie's dive into the engine room of the Empress provided the information, that had it been available at the time of the trial, could have implicated the Empress of Ireland?

Dosen't this solve the mystery of whose fault the collision was?
Does FULL SPEED AHEAD on the telegraph not fault the Empress of Ireland? The Empress claimed to have cut all engines because they lost sight of the Storstad in the heavy fog...

That was how the telegraph appeared to John Reekie in the dark and
murky hold. The captain claimed he stopped all engines, which was
contested by the Storstad at the inquiry. It also may have been put in
"full ahead" by the engineer once the collision occurred. It's a
mystery - we'll never know for sure.

-Kevin McMurray

 

[Bill Fisher]

Spectre,

Thanks man!
I guess not too many folks read the book seeing the lack of any replies.
Kevin seemed to clear up the questions I had regarding the wreck!
Thanks, and tell Kevin "thanks"... and I can't wait for his next book whenever that may be. I also really enjoyd DEEP DESCENT about the Andrea Doria.
Thanks again Spectre...Peace
Bill



When in doubt; go to the source. The following reply is from Kevin:



Glad you liked it.



Dany retrieved the letters from the stern. I was referring to the
port-side bow letters. Guess I wasn't clear enough on that matter.



Maybe. See below.



Subject to conjecture. Would the captain have been able to save the
ship? We'll never know.



That was how the telegraph appeared to John Reekie in the dark and
murky hold. The captain claimed he stopped all engines, which was
contested by the Storstad at the inquiry. It also may have been put in
"full ahead" by the engineer once the collision occurred. It's a
mystery - we'll never know for sure.

-Kevin McMurray[/QUOTE]

 

[Spectre]

Thanks man!
I guess not too many folks read the book seeing the lack of any replies.
Kevin seemed to clear up the questions I had regarding the wreck!
Thanks, and tell Kevin "thanks"... and I can't wait for his next book whenever that may be. I also really enjoyd DEEP DESCENT about the Andrea Doria.
Thanks again Spectre...Peace

You're welcome.

I know a couple years ago he was working on a joint project, but I believe that sort of fell through. I asked him when I saw him last April how that was going, and that's when I found out it was on hold. I forgot what he said he's working on now; I seem to recall it was a non-diving related novel, but I was so busy that day that it sorta slipped my mind.

 

[mwpowell]

I haven't finished the book yet, but I did a dive on the Empress last year and the port-side letters are still clearly visible.

Mike

 

[H2Andy]

great info, Spectre

there are quite a number of ways the telegraph (which as i understand it, is
just a twin set of levers moved to the desired engine speed) could have ended up
at full ahead.

for example, an object might have fallen on it, or someone might have shoved
against it, or pushed against it at some point following the collision.

or Reekie may be mistaken and the thing is not on full ahead

or a diver messed around with the telegraph at some point (during salvage efforts,
maybe, or a subsequent recreational diver).

i'm just speculating. there's too much that is not known for it to have any real
significance.

 

[Dragerdiver]

Bill: Dany St Cry did one hundred dives to cut the letters from the stern of The Empress, the letters on the bow are there forever now that the wreck is protected.

Intersting observation about "full steam ahead", I will have to once again watch "Deep Sea Detectives" "Sinking In The St Lawrence" and keep that info in mind.

I did three dives on the wreck in 2003 and at low tide you can touch the wreck bow to stern in 70ft, 90ft at high tide.

If you swim on the massive wreck and stay on the outside the only real advice I would give to someone is get used to cold water. Our dives were in Sept and the water was 36 deg, with a short deco you will push one hour in the water. We experienced no real current on the two days we dove.

Dragerdiver

 

[ron_cooper]

I can't remember all the details of the show that was just on this week. One of the things that was found was a perfect telegraph in the engine room. The divers that were on the show were very experienced tech divers and used rebreathers for the trips into the ship. It took a few attempts to find a way into the engine room and on one trip the divers got caught up in the wreck line and had to cut the line. The luckily got out. What they found was the teleghaph on full speed. The reply that would have been sent back to the bridge by the engineer was different than the order given. Also during the show they talked to a few shipping investigators that when over all the available information for the collision. they came up with the fact that both ships captains were giving a true account of what happened. It ended up that the main culpret was the fog that had come in. It is hard to explain the full details but basically the one ship made a steering correction where they over correct and then steer back onto course, it was said this is a normal practise.

 

[Dragerdiver]

Ron: I just did a search of the Discovery Channel and could not find the show, any other details about the title?

Thanks.
Dragerdiver

 

[ron_cooper]

I just did a google search and found it again. I was suprised to find that it wasn't on Discovery but on CBC, strange they would actually have an interesting show on. LOL. The title was just as I put it in the previous post. Last Vogage of the Empress. I don't know how to narrow it down for you but the shows seem to be on TV on a regular bases, the problem is the titles are always different. I copied this from the web page before it gets updated.

When the Empress of Ireland ocean liner sank in the St. Lawrence in May, 1914, it actually killed more people than the Titanic disaster two years earlier, 1,012 to be exact. And there is an even greater mystery surrounding the maritime tragedy that struck the Canadian Pacific's liner which was en route from Quebec City to Liverpool. And yet, the Empress story has all but disappeared from the history books. At least until The Last Voyage of the Empress, airing Tuesday night on CBC. The vessel went down in only 14 minutes after a collision in fog with a Norwegian ship. Each captain blamed the other and an inquiry at the time found the Norwegians responsible, but the documentary reaches some different conclusions. The film includes survivor interviews conducted in 1994 and shows a diving expedition to the wreck to help search for clues as to what really happened. (Tuesday, Sept. 20, CBC)

If it is any help the show aired on tuesay after King of Queens.
http://www.pgtvcable3.com/media/schedule/schedule.htm