dual outlet valve on single tank

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bradlw

Contributor
Messages
161
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96
Location
Saint Johns, FL
# of dives
100 - 199
way back when, maybe 25 years ago when I went through some of my early technical training through IANTD, I ended up buying a tank and rigging it with a double outlet valve. I still remember it was a low pressure 120ft3 and I hated it...big and heavy.
I don't recall if it was a requirement for one of those classes ....maybe "Deep Air" or "Technical Diver"...or if it was just something I did.

Anyway, just thinking back on that set-up... single tank with two 1st stage regs..... I get the point of total redundancy back to the point of the tank outlet
but, really.....
how often is this configuration used by people?
and can you think of a time when it proved to be useful? (or you wish that you'd had that set-up?)
 
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I prefer two regs on a set of doubles. But on a single tank, it is still useful, especially for solo or deco dives. A good buddy team can negate the need for it. However, I can think of a time it would have been useful. I was doing a single tank dive with my buddy and her reg started free flowing. We couldn't get it to stop, so I shared air and we ended the dive. If she'd had two valves (commonly now referred to as an H valve), she could have shut down the free flowing reg, switched to the other and continued the dive.
 
I regularly dive with an H-valve and 2 first stages. It provides great redundancy in the Great Lakes cold water where free-flows are not uncommon. I believe they are quite common in the cold water diving regions of Europe where Y-valves are also quite common. In my opinion relying on your buddies air in cold water is just as likely to send his regulator into free-flow, something I have seen on a number of occasions and several times it has resulted in both divers making a rapid ascent.
 
way back when, maybe 25 years ago when I went through some of my early technical training through IANTD, I ended up buying a tank and rigging it with a double outlet valve. I still remember it was a low pressure 120ft3 and I hated it...big and heavy.
I don't recall if it was a requirement for one of those classes ....maybe "Deep Air" or "Technical Diver"...or if it was just something I did.

Anyway, just thinking back on that set-up... single tank with two 1st stage regs..... I get the point of total redundancy back to the point of the tank outlet
but, really.....
how often is this configuration used by people?
and can you think of a time when it proved to be useful? (or you wish that you'd had that set-up?)
There is a whole sequence of increasing redundancy.
  1. One tank, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  2. One tank, one 1st stage, two 2nd stages.
  3. One tank, two 1st stages, two second stages
  4. Two tanks, manifolded, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage. (No one does this any more).
  5. Two tanks, not manifolded, each with one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  6. Same, but manifolded.
(1) was "the way" for many years.
(2) is now "the way," for the last 40 years
(3) suggested for cavern, ice-diving
(5) common in sidemount, no longer common in backmount
(6) standard backmount configuration

@Angelo Farina suggests (3) is the minimum needed.
 
I use it for all of my single cylinder dives. I also sling a 40 with single cylinder dives.
6CA59B39-D51A-465B-985B-AA37B88D8E32.jpeg


475CF4CC-7C2B-4D69-A7C4-195CA6A3E72C.jpeg
 
There is a whole sequence of increasing redundancy.
  1. One tank, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  2. One tank, one 1st stage, two 2nd stages.
  3. One tank, two 1st stages, two second stages
  4. Two tanks, manifolded, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage. (No one does this any more).
  5. Two tanks, not manifolded, each with one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  6. Same, but manifolded.
(1) was "the way" for many years.
(2) is now "the way," for the last 40 years
(3) suggested for cavern, ice-diving
(5) common in sidemount, no longer common in backmount
(6) standard backmount configuration

@Angelo Farina suggests (3) is the minimum needed.
I would suggest that diving with a suitable size pony would qualify as a 5.
 
There is a whole sequence of increasing redundancy.
  1. One tank, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  2. One tank, one 1st stage, two 2nd stages.
  3. One tank, two 1st stages, two second stages
  4. Two tanks, manifolded, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage. (No one does this any more).
  5. Two tanks, not manifolded, each with one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  6. Same, but manifolded.
(1) was "the way" for many years.
(2) is now "the way," for the last 40 years
(3) suggested for cavern, ice-diving
(5) common in sidemount, no longer common in backmount
(6) standard backmount configuration

@Angelo Farina suggests (3) is the minimum needed.
#1 1970-1980. J-valve 1970-1972. Added SPG 1972

17 year diving hiatus

#2 1997- Air 2 for 15 years, then bungeed second. As per @grf88, I dive a pony too. I don't count it as a #5 because it is not part of my primary gas supply, emergency use only.
 
There is a whole sequence of increasing redundancy.
  1. One tank, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  2. One tank, one 1st stage, two 2nd stages.
  3. One tank, two 1st stages, two second stages
  4. Two tanks, manifolded, one 1st stage, one 2nd stage. (No one does this any more).
  5. Two tanks, not manifolded, each with one 1st stage, one 2nd stage.
  6. Same, but manifolded.
(1) was "the way" for many years.
(2) is now "the way," for the last 40 years
(3) suggested for cavern, ice-diving
(5) common in sidemount, no longer common in backmount
(6) standard backmount configuration

@Angelo Farina suggests (3) is the minimum needed.
My current tank (15 liters steel, Faber) is number 3 PLUS RESERVE, which adds another significant safety, trapping 1/4 of the tank capacity, which is preserved in case of a sudden air loss (O-ring extrusion, for example), or in case the diver forgets to check his SPG.
Please note that I am a purely recreational diver and instructor, I did never practice anything requiring a technical certification.
However here in the Mediterranean the limits for recreational diving are a bit higher than in other places, as here we consider recreational diving going down to 50m and with deco on back gas (not accelerated deco with highly oxygenated mixtures, this is technical also here).
So you can understand how for deco diving in the sea having some air reserve is prudent.
If your tank does not have a reserve, an additional pony tank or a true twin tank is needed for these dives.
It must also be said that I am growing old, so I do not have plans to make deep deco dives in air anymore.
As one of the two valves of my tank is DIN-capable (unscrewing the adaptor), I have now configured one of my regs (a SP MK10) with the DIN conversion kit and two identical second stages (R109 modified to BA).
My plan is to use it also on rented tanks for low-depth dives, during the next summer, where objectively two independent firs stages could be excessive.
With yoke regs, instead, I would never use only one first stage: I have seen too many O-ring extrusions (most on the boat, but several also underwater), and they are not nice. My son also experienced a completely clogged first stage due to rust from a rented tank.
So it is quite evident that case 3 is better and safer than case 2, without the added complexity required by two tanks.
Regarding the typical American approach, that is case 2 plus a pony tank, I consider it more bulky, more complex (in the end you have THREE second stages) and not significantly more safe than case 3 with reserve. There are particular cases when also I did use a pony tank, but it always occurred starting from a manifolded twin tank with two regs, when planning for deep and long dives, or when requiring redundancy for other reasons.
Last remark. The list is not complete, because it does consider the presence or absence of the reserve (which in my opinion increases significantly the safety beyond the corresponding case without reserve).
And, in case of manifolded twin tanks, it does not separate the case of a permanently open manifold (as most "old" twin tanks were, including my ones) from the modern manifold with a separation valve (which is considered an alternative to the reserve, albeit, if I can choose, I prefer a twin tank with a permanently open manifold, two valves and reserve, to the modern configuration of a separation manifold and no reserve).
 
.... single cylinder dives.
Ooohhhh,,,,,This is Cool !! .
* Do you like it?
* Any O-ring leaks or yrly maintenance?
* Does the transmitter get rotated/bumped/moved frequently or just stay stable & motionless?
That's a cool idea since I don't like tiny short HP extension hoses.

Swivel-1stToTransmitter.jpg
 
Ooohhhh,,,,,This is Cool !! .
* Do you like it?
* Any O-ring leaks or yrly maintenance?
* Does the transmitter get rotated/bumped/moved frequently or just stay stable & motionless?
That's a cool idea since I don't like tiny short HP extension hoses.

View attachment 765642
HP right angle adapter, looks like another on the the other 1st stage. One on the right might make the valve knob a bit more accessible, particularly compared to having the transmitter sticking out from the lateral port. The one on the left may be a little in the way. The medial HP port on the left may not be accessible.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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