Drysuit undergarments - Santi or Fourth Element?

[WhiteSands]

Need to get measured for a Santi Elite tomorrow and need to decide which brand of undergarments I'm going with. I understand Santi will adjust the measurements of the drysuit based on the thickest undergarment in the range of undergarments chosen.

Fourth element looks cool. Two piece seems like a good idea especially if I need to go to the toilet. But if the top & bottom separates I will be cold.

Santi seems like they've put a lot of attention to every little detail to make their undergarments work well. Read that they keep the diver warmer than the 4th Element undergarments (when considering the similar line). However they make you look like marshmellowman or Darth Vader.

Which should I go with? Guess functionality is more important to me than looks although that matters too.

Thanks!

---------- Post added October 26th, 2013 at 10:45 PM ----------

I will be diving in different temp ranges from warm water to < 20 Deg C to near freezing temps. So will likely need to get the whole range of undergarments eventually.

 

[Gecko JK]

I have the 4th element dry base which is the two piece pant and shirt and than for our cold water here on Vancouver island wear the Halo3d on top of that. Excellent undergarments


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[tracydr]

I have Janice Softwear and from what I can tell it's almost the same as Fourth Elements, except that she makes a 200g and 300 g. She doesn't make the 2 layer, which I did hear somebody on Scuba Board complain about air getting trapped between the two layers of fabric and not venting. That might be a freak incident. Anyway, I love my Softwear because it's very flexible,soft and pretty warm. I wear a Smartwool base. If I dive somewhere colder than 50degrees, I'll need to add a warm vest or maybe a thicker base layer, something, because I was getting slightly chilled at 50 degrees.
BTW, Softwear is half the price of Fourth Element, custom made to your measurements and she gets it to you in about two days after you get your order in. She literally makes it the day you order it most of the time.
I will probably order her vest to add a layer of warmth. Any colder, I might get a Santi undergarment.

 

[TSandM]

For me, the 4th Element Arctic (the two piece fleece stuff) is not warm enough for water in the 40's. The Halo is a VERY nice undergarment, as long as you either aren't diving doubles or don't have any trouble reaching your valves. (I found the pads on the shoulders interacted in a negative way with the SiTech neck ring, in terms of reaching valves.)

I haven't dived the Santi suit, but everybody I know who has one likes it.

 

[WhiteSands]

Thanks for your feedback everyone. I ended up with the 4th Element undergarments because it can be tossed into the washing machine and can even be tossed into the dryer afterwards.

I understand that Thinsulate garments cannot be washed too often. One also has to be careful to get all detergent suds out, and it cannot be line dried, but has to be placed on a flat surface and flipped every so often.

Sounds like too much pain...

---------- Post added October 28th, 2013 at 10:45 AM ----------

For me, the 4th Element Arctic (the two piece fleece stuff) is not warm enough for water in the 40's. The Halo is a VERY nice undergarment, as long as you either aren't diving doubles or don't have any trouble reaching your valves. (I found the pads on the shoulders interacted in a negative way with the SiTech neck ring, in terms of reaching valves.)

I haven't dived the Santi suit, but everybody I know who has one likes it.

Hi Lynne,
I was shown this interactive guide to mixing & matching your 4th element undergarments by my LDS.

Drybase Ultra-Fast Wicking Baselayer for Diving | Fourth Element

On the right side click on "Undersuit Layering Guide".

For 4 degrees C or 39 F, you need Drybase + Arctic + Ozone.

Artic alone won't be enough looking at that chart.

 

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

I prefer a one piece for my main undergarment and if I need to layer then I use a 2 piece under that. IMO, I have tried many options, either route you go (Fourth Element/SANTI), you will not be making a mistake as both companies seam to be the current leaders in undergarments.

Here is what I found as well as feedback from others in regards to warmth:
CDS40 - a little warmer then Xerotherm XT250
BZ200 - slightly warmer than Arctic
BZ400 - slightly warmer than Halo 3d

Now the other side of it is comfort:
Are sales from both are equal so in regards to SANTI vs FE we have found that some divers may sacrifice a little warmth and have gone with the two piece or some have preferred the snugger fit and stretch of the FE. Some have said that the BZ400 is too buoyant so they go with the HALO.

In the end try both brands on and see what you prefer! For me it is all about being warm!

Here is what I use:
FE Dry Base - ALWAYS!
Cave Diving - SANTI CDS40
NE Wreck Diving - SANTI BZ200 (if I need just a little more I layer with FE Xerotherm XT250 top)
NE Winter - BZ200, FE Xerotherm XT250 top/bottom and SANTI heated vest
* I have test dove the BZ400 on multiple dives as well as Halo 3d - I feel that the SANTI BZ400 is the warmest one piece on the market but I already owned what I wear for the winter so I didn't need to buy the BZ400.

 

[TSandM]

I liked the FE Dry Base, but replaced it with KamGear undies, which are slightly fleecier and a bit warmer.

I also like undergarments you can wash, which is part of the reason I've ended up with the Whites Thermal Fusion.

 

[mpspringer]

TSandM -

So are you using the base layer and the Thermal Fusion together?

Im looking to purchase an undergarmet. Most likely the thermal Fusion. I dive in The PNW (Seattle) and have a Whites Tech Drysuit.

 

[jbb]

Need to get measured for a Santi Elite tomorrow and need to decide which brand of undergarments I'm going with. I understand Santi will adjust the measurements of the drysuit based on the thickest undergarment in the range of undergarments chosen.

Fourth element looks cool. Two piece seems like a good idea especially if I need to go to the toilet. But if the top & bottom separates I will be cold.

I just purchased a two piece Fourth Element this summer. I wouldn't worry about the two piece separating they have a decent overlap. Although the rep recommended the top go over the bottoms I like the bottoms to overlap the top as they can be tied (bottoms) and everything stays in place. You have a double layer over your lower abdomen. I do wear a lighter wicking layer underneath to intercept body oils etc. I really don't think even this will keep me warm in 40 degree water in my Apollo suit. I just swim too slow with my camera gear and don't have a real hot metabolism. Argon has been suggested as a significant help but i'll wait on that.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I used to use the FE Base layer and Arctic for almost everything(deep and cold) and Arctic for anything over 48 degrees...even under the ice (base and arctic). Lately, the Halo has been my go to all the time In the deep cold, it still doesn't hurt to add the base layer. I'm a HUGE fan of the tighter fit of the fleece undergarments though. I love the fit, flexibility, and mobility. I'm 6'3, and don't have any problems with the Halo and Si Tech system. I think it depends on your size.