Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde dive guides

[Maolli]

Hi I am curious if mine is a unique experience. We just finished a week long dive trip and this is the third time I've had the experience where I spent a week with crew (one was an Egypt liveaboard) where above water they are friendly and nice but once the dive begins they're like a totally different person who is downright mean and nasty.

This week we were on a dive headed towards a wreck on a long swim out and I guess in my excitement I got maybe a few meters below and slightly ahead of the guide who vigorously and aggressively gestured with sweeping arm movements and other signals that I was to get behind and level with him and the body language was similar to a traffic cop pursuing a fleeing suspect.

Another time me and my buddy were perhaps 5-10 meters apart at a depth of less than 20 meters in clear visibility and the guide quickly swam up to us and aggressively gave us the "get next to your buddy signal" while shaking his head and making faces behind his mask as if we were criminals.

On yet another dive when an unrelated buddy team ran low on gas the guide indicated everybody had to ascend, I lingered for a minute or two to get a last look at a colorful reef and thinking how pointless it was to have paid extra for nitrox and a 120 steel tank that was 2/3 full. The guide swam up to my face and firmly motioned "UP" while jerking his hand up and down as if a cop might demand a suspect "get in the back of the squad car NOW!"

Is this part of dive master training? If a customer is perceived to be committing some sort of underwater transgression, be as mean and nasty as possible while immediately correcting the bad behavior? It detracts from the experience and leaves a bad taste. And of course results in a negative review.

 

[BoltSnap]

Is this part of dive master training? If a customer is perceived to be committing some sort of underwater transgression, be as mean and nasty as possible while immediately correcting the bad behavior? It detracts from the experience and leaves a bad taste. And of course results in a negative review.

According to your version of the story, I would NOT accept any of this at all, none of it. I'd talk with the person in charge of the dive operation and let them know very clearly, but professionally, that this is unacceptable and unprofessional. The part about having to ascend because somebody not your buddy is low on air is totally unacceptable; that's not what you paid for when you signed up with them.

 

[Maolli]

According to your version of the story, I would NOT accept any of this at all, none of it. I'd talk with the person in charge of the dive operation and let them know very clearly, but professionally, that this is unacceptable and unprofessional. The part about having to ascend because somebody not your buddy is low on air is totally unacceptable; that's not what you paid for when you signed up with them.

I did complain, to the guide and back at the shop. Guide couldn't care less, the shop expressed false sympathy. They got a 1 star review and no more business from me and anyone I could steer away from them. But that's little consolation.

But this isn't really about that it's about "underwater attitude" and how fast personalities seem to change.

And also after the dive, when back on dry land they're once again as friendly as ever as if the perceived major life threatening transgression never occurred.

 

[BoltSnap]

I did complain, to the guide and back at the shop. Guide couldn't care less, the shop expressed false sympathy. They got a 1 star review and no more business from me and anyone I could steer away from them. But that's little consolation.

But this isn't really about that it's about "underwater attitude" and how fast personalities seem to change.

And also after the dive, when back on dry land they're once again as friendly as ever as if the perceived major life threatening transgression never occurred.

I am from Libya, and I know how to deal with Egyptians. I'd give them hell when back on the boat or land.

 

[Maolli]

I am from Libya, and I know how to deal with Egyptians. I'd give them hell when back on the boat or land.

Too bad you weren't there. Anyway the Egypt guy was just annoying more than anything else.

 

[Mobulai]

Sounds like relatively freshly certified DMs that are letting their anxiety get the best of them — by their training they should keep the pack in order and no one strays too far (it’s how the DM certification circuit/exam is conducted, to provide them with a chaotic situation and they should manage it(
But just because the exam conditions that behavior, doesn’t mean it’s justifiable to react aggressively — calmness is the key quality of divers

But being aggressive about it is also unacceptable, as an Egyptian probably I’ll give them a piece of my mind as well; but I think this would be best addressed in briefings to keep it constructive: make it clear to them that you are aware of your limits, that you can rely on yourself, and that aggressive communication will not be acceptable (as it can fluster a diver and cause them to be erratic — maybe even start a domino effect leading to an incident, I know I would be stressed out under conditions you described)

Ofcourse the best impact is to vote with your money, bad experience = bad tip / no repeat business

 

[Bubblesong]

I’m confused about who was the Hyde in this situation, in other words, the first person to switch behavior? In three separate week long trips?
1.Before the trip, did you sign anything that said you would abide by the crew instructions or did you let them know, in advance of booking, that you would consider their safety instructions entirely optional on your part, and remedial reminders to be an afront to your dignity and freedom?
2. On board, during pre dive discussions and preparations, did you let guides know ahead of time that you were going to zoom ahead of the guide, wander out of octopus reach of a buddy and lose that buddy-awareness that is the whole point of buddies in the first place?
3. Let the crew know, before descending, that when the entire group gets on board you would stay below the waves to enjoy the quiet beauty of the ocean all by yourself, just so when they do the head count, they would come up one body short?
4. How was your behaviour both on board and below water? Were you listening to crew instructions on the boat, such as dont step on other people’s gear, share the food with others, don’t leave cheap Chinese batteries plugged in all night, or were you equally equally ignoring them both below and above water?
For your next dive trip, to avoid a repeat of these experiences, you may want to let the dive business know ahead of time that you will be exhibiting all of these behaviors so that before they take your money they understand your expectations to be able to wander off free of the encumbrances of underwater “traffic cops”, and in writing, assure them they won’t be held legally liable for your death, and that your estate will also be liable for anyone else you endanger. That way everyone will be happy! Or maybe they won’t book the tourist-Hyde. Please do update us to what they say.

 

[Maolli]

I’m confused about who was the Hyde in this situation, in other words, the first person to switch behavior? In three separate week long trips?
1.Before the trip, did you sign anything that said you would abide by the crew instructions or did you let them know, in advance of booking, that you would consider their safety instructions entirely optional on your part, and remedial reminders to be an afront to your dignity and freedom?
2. On board, during pre dive discussions and preparations, did you let guides know ahead of time that you were going to zoom ahead of the guide, wander out of octopus reach of a buddy and lose that buddy-awareness that is the whole point of buddies in the first place?
3. Let the crew know, before descending, that when the entire group gets on board you would stay below the waves to enjoy the quiet beauty of the ocean all by yourself, just so when they do the head count, they would come up one body short?
4. How was your behaviour both on board and below water? Were you listening to crew instructions on the boat, such as dont step on other people’s gear, share the food with others, don’t leave cheap Chinese batteries plugged in all night, or were you equally equally ignoring them both below and above water?
For your next dive trip, to avoid a repeat of these experiences, you may want to let the dive business know ahead of time that you will be exhibiting all of these behaviors so that before they take your money they understand your expectations to be able to wander off free of the encumbrances of underwater “traffic cops”, and in writing, assure them they won’t be held legally liable for your death, and that your estate will also be liable for anyone else you endanger. That way everyone will be happy! Or maybe they won’t book the tourist-Hyde. Please do update us to what they say.

You might want to read a bit more slowly and give yourself the opportunity to fully understand the material before rushing to a judgmental and errant response. I did nothing to receive the attitude bestowed upon me in these instances.

The buddy separation distance was not unreasonable, we expected long bottom times and paid for them in terms of the large, heavy steel tanks + Nitrox. There was nothing said about ascending when other buddy teams were low on gas.

I "confessed" to getting a bit below and ahead of the guide as we approached the wreck. I felt the attitude I received was unwarranted but that's why I asked the membership here for their opinions.

Your crazy assumptions, judgements and hostile remarks are not valid and say as much about your attitude as the guides who are the subject of my post.

 

[sea_ledford]

That behavior from a DM is unusual, and sounds aggressive. If it was just a one time thing, I would think it was that particular DM. But it has been multiple DMs over three trips. It seems like the common factor is you.

You were aware that you got ahead of the guide, but what are you unaware of? Maybe you are missing the five minutes of the DM trying to communicate in a more gentle manner, and only notice once they are exasperated and get in your face.

Maybe it is some sort of cultural issue and you've had incredibly bad luck. You can't do anything about that. If it is due to you being overly task focused and missing critical communication, that is something you CAN do something about. Plus the worse outcome from that is you end up with better situational awareness.

 

[BoltSnap]

I experienced something similar when I dove out of Sharm many years ago. As soon as I returned to the dock, I told the dive manager about it. I went to a different dive operation, and I told them what had happened with the other dive operation and that I didn't wish to go through it again. They understood my point and treated me like royalty. In recent years, I traveled to Hurghada and Sharm, but I was never treated in less than a professional and friendly way.