Done DIR-F and gone back to non DIR Diving?

[simbrooks]

I have read plenty about DIR and the DIR-f course, various trip like reports of how people did on it, what they learned and how they found the teaching/presentation. Also going from there to hearing about it used to be workshop, now its a pass/fail course - all of which are very interesting, but i have a question (you might guess it by the title of the thread):

Has anyone gone and done the DIR-F course, found out useful info, worked on skills etc, but then declined to follow up on taking more DIR courses and stayed with other agencies (or no more courses at all) for further training?

This isnt a troll, and i wouldnt put it in the DIR forum as it addresses people who arent still Doing It Right but did actually do the training. I know a lot of people have misconceived ideas about what is involved in DIR-F and further courses, but have never taken them (i might fit into that catagory), so they arent quite the target audience, but i am sure some will get involved. I also understand people have taken some of the stuff that is instructed in DIR, and used some bits and not others etc, didnt do the course, again some of this info is common knowledge and pre-dates DIR, but is used by many (mostly technical) divers in one way or another.

I guess the reason for asking this is, i believe i could work on skills and other aspects of my diving with my instructor that are taught in DIR-F during cavern/cave and further training, many of the equipment procedures/configurations ideas are the same as DIR teaches, and although i know there are courses run at Brownies in Ft Lauderdale (guessing my closest resource) or up at High Springs maybe, i guess its freeing time and having/paying a different instructor who would teach me the formal DIR stuff whereas this instructor would probably do just as well. ie. is it worth doing "the course" if i can get the info elsewhere and would be training with a non-DIR guy but have pretty much the same skills.

With regard to the other holistic parts of exercise and diet, i am already trying that stuff (see the dive into fitness forum), with regards to dive planning, tables, computer and some time in the future deco software. I guess there are drills and other stuch stuff that are taught which have a DIR spin on them, not sure about those. I guess without seeing the full rundown of what they cover (almost a transcript - which of course would help!!) i wouldnt fully know without attending if i am "missing" anything additional. I am probably going to buy JJ's book to add to my library of resources on diving (still very much incomplete, but growing steadily). I think this kind of thing has come up due to reading about DIR on here and talking with Mike from 5thD when we met him and his wife in High Springs a couple of months ago, and we said what level we were at, where we were looking at going, how we might move up to PNW one day - he suggested doing DIR-F and that we look in the shop when we get up there.

Again i am open to comment and was wondering if anyone had done the DIR-F training but backed out of going further with it all?

 

[Mako Mark]

I have not done any DIR training, however I have a lot of respect for their knowledge and they are passionate about their diving. What I have found myself doing recently is using DIR as a phrase to indicate an attitude. Particularly with tec diving, there can be no half measures. If you are going to do it, DO IT RIGHT, the problem is: What is right? and who is right?

If you take technical training no matter what agency, you will be given the option to make the comittment with equipment and dive planning to make these kind of dives. If you are not willing to make the comittment to DOING IT RIGHT, then you should go home and take up waterpainting instead, and that is what we should be recommending to all divers.

I wonder how long it will take for some of the good sense ideas that are presently seen as extreemest DIR dogma by much of the dive community, to become more broadly accepted.

I wonder what would happen if I turned up to teach a PADI open water course and included the BP/W and hogarthian longhose set up. Maybe I should try it. Until I met the DIR guys here on this board, it would never have entered my mind to make a recreational diver follow technical diving gear rigging concepts, but there is some good common sense in it.

I think that the DIR philosophy has been a little too closely attached to one particular agency and equipment manufacturer in the view of the general public. But as the DIR members of this board are quick to point out, the equipment brand is not written in stone, it is just one particular brand is designed by someone that follows the DIR philosophy, so therefore it meets the needs of that philosophy better than others may. When DIR becomes less agency specific, then I will certainly consider taking courses.

Presently I dont know of a single DIR instructor/IT in my area however, so I guess I have to wait.

 

[DennisS]

If they side mount with trans pac harnesses and dive with non DIR divers is that considered going back to non DIR diving

 

[simbrooks]

What is right? and who is right?

I guess this is partly the point of the original question, if i am getting training in traditional ways of technical diving and better techniques and skills, planning etc, that DIR is kind of based and selected from - it wouldnt be a GUE course, but also not far off "DIR" instruction, except the name tag and some other aspects of the entire lifestyle/holistic view.

If you take technical training no matter what agency, you will be given the option to make the comittment with equipment and dive planning to make these kind of dives. If you are not willing to make the comittment to DOING IT RIGHT, then you should go home and take up waterpainting instead, and that is what we should be recommending to all divers.

I believe that i would like to put in the effort for the training involved and see some of the benefits from technical diving (btw i am a geotechnical engineer, some call geological over here, part of the reason for caving interest) - just wondering what i might get out of the DIR-F and beyond courses that i might not get from a cave diving instructor?

I wonder how long it will take for some of the good sense ideas that are presently seen as extreemest DIR dogma by much of the dive community, to become more broadly accepted.

Well some things i will take up in the Hogarthian way of long hose bungeed second when i do cavern and cave training. I already have the BP/Wings and very much enjoying them (from what i read of MHK's description of required equipment it sounds just fine).

I think that the DIR philosophy has been a little too closely attached to one particular agency and equipment manufacturer in the view of the general public. But as the DIR members of this board are quick to point out, the equipment brand is not written in stone

Again my equipment is not Halcyon, lets not go there, it ticks the DIR people off as well and is kind of off topic. My gear is Zeagle.


I guess this also comes off the back of Fred's (fray1) question about "why DIR?" that came up a little time ago. I do keep a weather eye on the DIR forum. I am still not sure exactly what i am asking at this time, its a bit from the what extra is there that you would learn in the DIR route compared to the other cave instructors (i know that they can vary in their abilities, but i have confidence) following best practices brought thru over time (that also form the basis of DIR from what i see). Again i have a long way to go to become a "good" diver, but i have an aim to do something, just would like to find a reasonable route there!

 

[scubafool]

Great thread, Simon. I'll be checking responses regularly.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I wonder what would happen if I turned up to teach a PADI open water course and included the BP/W and hogarthian longhose set up. Maybe I should try it. Until I met the DIR guys here on this board, it would never have entered my mind to make a recreational diver follow technical diving gear rigging concepts, but there is some good common sense in it.

It doesn't have anything to do with DIR but I've been teaching recreational classes in a Hogarthian equipment configuration for years.

Not all my students wear a back plate but they do all donate the primary reg which is on a "longer" hose and wear the backup which is on a shorter hose on a necklace.

 

[ABQdiver]

I have not had the opportunity to take the "fundies" class yet. I was signed up for the last class offered in the area and it ended up getting canceled due to lack of participants. Its been a year now and still nothing in sight. Maybe I'll have to get off my butt and start the process myself......

I'm really intrigued by the whole Hogarthian set up and dive it now. Complete with BP & Wings, long hose. I don't know if I'm going to get into tech diving as much as I'd like/dream but diving a minimal kit really makes diving easier for me. I like the feel of it all (or lack of all). The commitment the DIR divers give to the process is something I support. If your going to do something, do it right has always been a way of life for me no matter what I am doing, hobby or job.

I can't say that I will be a complete DIR diver once I take the class, but I sure wished I had the opportunity that the divers in Calif. and Florida have for some of the more advanced classes and training. You will NEVER regret training and more knowledge! The opposite cannot be said.

 

[detroit diver]

Why don't you just take a Fundamentals class and decide for yourself if continued training via GUE and DIR is for you? You obviously seem interested in it, and there is no way that one can explain what you get from that class, or any other GUE class, on the internet.

If you start back in the archives and read the many class reports from the Fundy class, there are VERY few (and I think few is too generous) people that did not love what was learned in that class. Virtually every person that I have run across has said that it was the best class they have ever taken.

But there is no way for you to evaluate what the next level means until you've experienced the first level, ie DIRF.

 

[detroit diver]

Cancun Mark: Where are you from?

 

[sharkmasterbc]

I frequently show up to teach PADI courses with a longhose and half DIR setup (even in the pool). Sooner than later I will be always teaching in BP/Wings during all of the classes I conduct...ocean and pool. Doing it right is not just a gear config but something that you belive in as a person...the Hogarthian style of rigging is clean, streamlined, simple, effective, proven, tested and standardized. There is even a portion in the PADI ow video about using "Safe second stages" where you must give away the primary reg if your buddy is OOA. It takes me about 1 minute to explain to my students what would happen if they were OOA while under my supervision and how the long hose is donated...I don't understand where this mentality of not being able to teach rec courses in a Hogarthian rig comes from ? Makes no sense to me...