Do I go for IDC?

[Divin'Papaw]

Sorry, I used the term "supposed to" incorrectly. I couldn't agree more and I certainly do not "break any standards"! What I meant was hints on buoyancy, hints on alternate methods to clear masks, hints on what I observe with inflator hose utilization that the instructor doesn't necessarily notice because he/she is working with all the students and I can stand back in my appointed position and observe others while instructor is working with individuals. So no, NEVER break standards! But can advise on breathing as it correlates to buoyancy, etc. I'm not surre I sid anything about "breaking standards."

Are you carrying your own liability insurance or are you on the shop's plan? If you are on the shop plan keep in mind that your own personal financial assets are left to the whims of what that policy covers in the event of an accident. Something to consider. When I DMed I ALWAYS carried my own insurance. I did not want my own assets to be protected by a policy I did not have control over.

 

[Olddiver1950]

dm has liability, and more knowledge and experience lets you make the best choice , as a dm the instructor right or wrong makes the liability choices NOT the dm but you still take that liability ride ... I would rather be the guy making the choices that way I can mitigate the exposure .also the DM can not break standards (maybe shortcuts ) if the standards wont allow them . if a dm broke standards on my watch he/she would be gone

Maybe it helps your opinion by me stating that I, as dm, do nothing not sanctioned by the instructor. In fact, prior to each class the instructor and I sit down and discuss how he/she wants me to assist. We discuss my physical position in the pool as well as the open water dives. We discuss my experience in observing and “adjusting” student technique and whether he/she wants me to do that. We discuss if he wants me to participate or wait for instruction from him/her on what to do while in the water. I am silent in classroom settings. So I know my role as DM! A support role. But as you say DM has liability and what goes along with liability is responsibility which I take seriously. So if a student is utilizing inflator hose incorrectly, as an example, while the instructor is working with a different student I will step in and correct that error, sometimes with hints from experience. I’d rather correct errors that could result in bolting to the surface than sit back and observe only. That’s my philosophy and that’s what instructor and I discuss before each class. It works well for us.

 

[Olddiver1950]

Are you carrying your own liability insurance or are you on the shop's plan? If you are on the shop plan keep in mind that your own personal financial assets are left to the whims of what that policy covers in the event of an accident. Something to consider. When I DMed I ALWAYS carried my own insurance. I did not want my own assets to be protected by a policy I did not have control over.

Yep, I have both. So that’s a good point!

 

[TMHeimer]

Maybe it helps your opinion by me stating that I, as dm, do nothing not sanctioned by the instructor. In fact, prior to each class the instructor and I sit down and discuss how he/she wants me to assist. We discuss my physical position in the pool as well as the open water dives. We discuss my experience in observing and “adjusting” student technique and whether he/she wants me to do that. We discuss if he wants me to participate or wait for instruction from him/her on what to do while in the water. I am silent in classroom settings. So I know my role as DM! A support role. But as you say DM has liability and what goes along with liability is responsibility which I take seriously. So if a student is utilizing inflator hose incorrectly, as an example, while the instructor is working with a different student I will step in and correct that error, sometimes with hints from experience. I’d rather correct errors that could result in bolting to the surface than sit back and observe only. That’s my philosophy and that’s what instructor and I discuss before each class. It works well for us.

This is pretty much what I did in my 4 years. I have to admit that my knowledge of every standard was not the best. I knew the basics very well, as well as what I needed to know to function as an assistant. I never witnessed any of the 10 or more instructors I assisted doing something obviously wrong--like telling the class "we'll do OW dive 1 in 55' of water just for the heck of it".
I did see the odd thing that seemed a little off--like one instructor telling me that drown-proofing wasn't allowed on the 10 minute float. I wonder if the instructor slightly violates some standard and the DM doesn't notice, would the DM be culpable as well if there is an accident as a result?
I always had my own insurance (PADI's people) as the shop didn't have an umbrella one. I was only covered for assisting, as that's all I did, so the cost was a little over half had I been covered for everything.

 

[JackD342]

You know, you can satisfy that teaching you are dying to do via some other ways without becoming an Instructor.
I don't have the full list in front of me, but there are plenty of opportunities.

• Be the "go to" guy for Reactivates and Scuba Tuneups
• Does your shop do any local diving tours for certified divers that aren't doing training?
• Digital Underwater Photo
• PADI Skin Diver
• Project AWARE
• Emergency First Response

Yeah, you may need to get some added training for some of these, and you don't get to get wet for all of them, but you can certainly keep busy, keep a little cash flow going in rather than out, and maybe even add some overlooked programs to the shop that have been overlooked.

 

[W W Meixner]

Are you carrying your own liability insurance or are you on the shop's plan? If you are on the shop plan keep in mind that your own personal financial assets are left to the whims of what that policy covers in the event of an accident. Something to consider. When I DMed I ALWAYS carried my own insurance. I did not want my own assets to be protected by a policy I did not have control over.

Jim...

Take your wife on as many great vacations as life/health/time permits...

Life and health are both fleeting things...

''Live well...Love much...laugh often...

Scuba should be ''a love'' never a life...

At 68 years old...the absolute worst thing you could spend four thousand dollars on...

Something else to consider...depending where you reside...age 70...is when this type of insurance starts to sky-rocket...make sure you do your homework...ask all the questions...get all the facts...you''ll get to a point where this ''fabulous job'' doesn't begin to cover your basic costs...vehicle maintenance/wear/tear/additional income taxes/fuel...

Finally...your LDS is doing nothing to benefit you...only them...and the better they know you...the more they'll expect you to do at no cost to them...

Working on an ''exchange of favors'' program...is never in your favor...one entity gets what it wants...and the other entity gets screwed...you're working for ''list'' and you get ''free'' dive gear at cost...buying your dive gear at list...will save you lots of money...

I know from where I speak...I had seven years ''post retirement'' at a LDS...

Best...

Warren...a 70 year old retired professional...with a great spouse...and a great life...

 

[ofg-1]

At 68 years old...the absolute worst thing you could spend four thousand dollars on...

I disagree. You could find a lot worse things to spend $4000 on. A weekend at the Bunny Ranch in Vegas, a wooden boat, vacation in Afghanistan, a rusted out Volvo, purebred cats. Not that I would go to a IDC either.

 

[abnfrog]

I agree to say never do idc is just dumb ,,,,if you want to teach and can pass the idc I say go for it , 2 years ago I became a full time instructor, im not going to be a millionaire , but im having fun and paying the bills , it also was a great 2nd living . while living in the big city . Also I doesn't cost 4 k for an idc ......just some locations if you can dream it and want it do it

 

[Diving Dubai]

Great decision! I'm just getting into being a DM (still a DMC at the moment) but in helping with the OW classes so far, I notice the students typically will consult the DM before they will the instructor on most things. Gear setup questions, "hey how do you do this?", stuff like that. And I like that. It's like they identify more with the DM and they seem to develop a more personal relationship than with the instructor. And it's a really good feeling.

And so it should be. A good DM will be the link between the Student and Instructor, and one the students feel more at ease approaching. They can reduce the workload of the instructor, by intervening and sorting minor issues allowing the instructor to divert more attention to the student under their direct supervision.

A good DM can allow me some breathing space to quietly plan teh next lesson based on the student's current performance.

I will involve my DM's as much as I'm allowed. On debrief I'll ask them if there is anything they want to add. I'll mentor them as if they want to become instructors - giving them hints and tips on control and teaching etc etc.

But I'm intolerant of bad DM's I don't' expect them to be lazy nor demonstration bad behavior or technique. They also shouldn't undermine the instructor in front of students. If they have an issue have a 1 on 1 conversations away from the student.

A good DM is worth their weight in Gold. However very little gives you the same feeling as when at the end of yoru IDC the examiner shakes yoru hand telling you you've passed - Your bar bill is never as big as that day either

 

[Diving Dubai]

Also I doesn't cost 4 k for an idc ......just some locations if you can dream it and want it do it

Not so sure. Mine was close to it even doing it at my Local centre. It's not the fees it's the ++ additions

Course fee, E-Learning, Crew Pack, IDC fee, Certification fee, Insurance + Misc, then it all adds up.

That was my biggest beef. It wasn't the cost, but I'd have preferred 1 or 2 payment(s) rather than a low advertised fee with the additions "in the small print"

I have a firm grasp for the actual cost before I started, others might get a shock