Divemasters Should Ask 'Is Your Oxygen ON?'

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Dave1w

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No one is arguing that "tech" divers are so great they don't need risk mitigation strategies and 'help'.

Umpteen posts back I said:

That's enough if someone's determined to ask a pre-jump question.
Jump in with 0.7 PO2, has turned off. Swim hard to shotline…..
 

Wibble

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Jump in with 0.7 PO2, has turned off. Swim hard to shotline…..
Agreed. But its the special case where someone's not been breathing from the loop since turning the O2 on.

Was only trying to make the point that simply asking "is the O2 on" isn't enough. O2 on, dil off and you plummet breathing hyperoxic mix.
 

Wookie

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I guess you miss the point.

We all know that European and UK (same thing as far as we care) divers are far superior to all other divers, but the OP is located in the US, and in the US there is a certification for technical DM. Why? Because as you rightfully point out, a DM on a punter boat has no idea how to cater to a rebreather diver. So we actually train them to take care of punter rebreather divers who don’t know (yet) how to take care of themselves.

Be happy to live in a place where divers are born with the knowledge to take care of themselves and need no one to help watch over them.
 

Wibble

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I guess you miss the point.

We all know that European and UK (same thing as far as we care) divers are far superior to all other divers, but the OP is located in the US, and in the US there is a certification for technical DM. Why? Because as you rightfully point out, a DM on a punter boat has no idea how to cater to a rebreather diver. So we actually train them to take care of punter rebreather divers who don’t know (yet) how to take care of themselves.
It's about what you've said about the 'punter' boats.

Had no idea that there's a technical DM role. The traditional term of DM is so closely linked with the elephant agency where they actively persue simple diving and (generally) haven't a clue about technical diving, especially CCR.
 

Wookie

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It's about what you've said about the 'punter' boats.

Had no idea that there's a technical DM role. The traditional term of DM is so closely linked with the elephant agency where they actively persue simple diving and (generally) haven't a clue about technical diving, especially CCR.
Agreed, but here in the US (where we have to be concerned with lawsuits coming from every direction) we were required by our insurance company to have “a person of supervisory certification on the vessel to oversee all diving”. On an OC punter boat that’s a DM. On a tech boat, that’s a Tech DM minimum. As stated upthread, I hired a mod 3 rebreather instructor (for dives planned to 100m or shallower) as the vessel Diving Safety Officer, not to regulate the diving, but to tell me when someone planned something stupid. If we were planning dives in excess of 100m (our deepest sanctioned diving was 166m) we had an expedition instructor. That’s an IANTD cert. Again, not to regulate the diving, but to guide and oversee gas planning, support divers, etc.

Mostly in the name of satisfying the insurance company, and to let me know if someone was either planning or doing something stupid.
 

Wibble

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Agreed, but here in the US (where we have to be concerned with lawsuits coming from every direction) we were required by our insurance company to have “a person of supervisory certification on the vessel to oversee all diving”. On an OC punter boat that’s a DM. On a tech boat, that’s a Tech DM minimum. As stated upthread, I hired a mod 3 rebreather instructor (for dives planned to 100m or shallower) as the vessel Diving Safety Officer, not to regulate the diving, but to tell me when someone planned something stupid. If we were planning dives in excess of 100m (our deepest sanctioned diving was 166m) we had an expedition instructor. That’s an IANTD cert. Again, not to regulate the diving, but to guide and oversee gas planning, support divers, etc.

Mostly in the name of satisfying the insurance company, and to let me know if someone was either planning or doing something stupid.
Thanks for pointing that out. Wasn't aware that things had dropped to that level of CYA. It goes without saying of course that the insurance company doesn't contribute.

Does nicely explain some of the responses above.
 

Edward3c

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Prof Simon Mitchell gave a talk to the BSAC Diving Converence in 2019 on this very topic.

His suggestion was a simple list that could be given to any DM for them to ask the Rebreather diver 4 simple questions for them to demonstrate compliance just before entering the water:
  1. Is you drysuit connected?
  2. Is your computer on?
  3. Is your O2 on?
  4. Is your diluent on?
These are the 4 biggest rebreather killers.

Have a watch and listen here. Is it really too much to spend 45 seconds on safety.
 

Dave1w

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Thanks for pointing that out. Wasn't aware that things had dropped to that level of CYA. It goes without saying of course that the insurance company doesn't contribute.

Does nicely explain some of the responses above.
What you see as covering your arse, I see as perhaps taking an interest in running a safe operation. I’d much prefer an engaged crew than someone simply there to taxi me to site and drop me off… some of it seem to be a difference between diving being about ”me” or “us”
 

Wibble

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What you see as covering your arse, I see as perhaps taking an interest in running a safe operation. I’d much prefer an engaged crew than someone simply there to taxi me to site and drop me off… some of it seem to be a difference between diving being about ”me” or “us”
Whilst that may be desirable it effectively means the crew are taking responsibility for the divers. They then can say no if they so choose.

OTOH a taxi service doesn’t and won’t take responsibility. Total numpties aside, one would hope that the divers come prepared and dived up for the planned dive, bringing a buddy if that pleases them.

Personally I’d take the taxi every time.

Caveat — of course it’s not as black and white as this.
 

Edward3c

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Whilst that may be desirable it effectively means the crew are taking responsibility for the divers. They then can say no if they so choose.
I was on a boat last week, following the skipper’s £290k fine in Scotland. We were not allowed to put fins on until at the exit point, and the moment we were back on board fins had to come off. The owner had not come up with a deck design solution to prevent falling. Even though the Court accepted the skipper wasn’t responsible for the diving.
 
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