disasters, negative presumptions, personal growth, observations and the search for enlightenment

[Antmany2k]

ok this is going to be long and varied but i figured its better to do 1 post than spam the forum with loads of new ones. i flew back last night from 10 days diving in Lanzarote and during the 10 and half dives that i did i feel i learned a lot and feel a better diver than before i went but also came out with some negatives and a couple of questions. so addressing the title in order here we go:

disasters - as i stated above i completed 10 and a half dives. on one of the dives we were 8 minutes in and around 10m and one of our group was struggling with his mask and clearly panicking and i tried to go over and help but as his buddy tried to help him he pushed him away and inflated his BCD to go back to the surface. we later found out that he had water in his mask and had had a coughing fit which then led to a panic attack as he felt he couldn't breathe. our guide and the rest of the group had not realized and were some way ahead so i used my brand new rattle to signal them (bought it to point out any interesting marine life i might spot, never thought of it as a safety tool) they came back and the guide went to the surface to see what the matter was and if he could continue, he felt he couldn't so signaled us to come back. now i am a slave to my dive watch and it said i should do a safety stop so i took control of the new open water diver who had passed in fresh water and was doing his first saltwater dives, and 2 OW divers who had not dived for 4 years except for a pool refresher none of who had computers. the other "advanced diver" in our group decided to leave his buddy and go straight to the surface without a safety stop. i led them back after a safety stop and one of the group said i did a good job of communicating and controlling the situation.

conclusion and questions:
1. did i need to do a safety stop under the circumstances or should we have all gone to the surface straight away? we weren't deep but id say deep enough.
2. i was pleased with how i kept calm under the circumstances as i have never been in that situation but i can't help but think could i have done more? did i do something wrong? at that depth danger was minimal but if he had shot to the surface from 18m or deeper it could be a different story. do i grab him and make sure he stays but risk him actually choking or worse lashing out and causing me injury or danger to get up?
3. it made me wonder if my next course should potentially be a rescue diver course so i could be a better buddy in these situations
4. how would you have reacted in this situation?

Negative presumptions - ok so i am rather on the large side, i get mistaken for a rugby player often. i am lucky that i am quite broad shouldered and look big built but i also have a big gut so i look half bodybuilder half marshmallow. weight is something i have always struggled with and the thing i have always liked about diving is no one seems to judge or comment on it. except last week. so our new open water diver and one of the ones who hadn't dived for 4 years were spaffing their air like it was a soft drink and led to some quite short 25-30 minute dives. so the were upgraded to 15l tanks. now that's fine and they felt bad at being the reason dives were turned around early but i told them not to worry and we had all been there. the think that irked me was that our guide for their first dive on 15l (the same dive as the panic diver) assumed that i needed 15l, i told him i needed 12 and he asked if i was certain! he finds out from the list that is not me and we go on. ok fine. then we do a boat dive to an underwater museum and the boat captain also comments that i should have 15l. i disagree and he argues with me, then the guide advises him i need 12. captain doesn't realize i speak spanish and understand him when he tells the guide i am fat so need 15l not the skinny guy. i felt pretty smug when i was the last one up after being afforded more bottom time with another guide as i had more air than the others. then to top it off the last dives we did were with a freelance dive master who used to work for the company last year when we went but was called in due to our guide being ill. he takes out a 15l tank and says that's for you. another argument ensues where i again end up with a 12l tank.

conclusion - i found out afterwards that typically bigger guys need to have a bigger tank as they use their air quicker. fair enough but why not just ask if i want a 12 or 15 rather than make a big deal out of it in front of others? my air consumption was the best of the whole group and quite frankly i was made to feel like sh*t which is something i've dealt with in all aspects of life but not in diving, at least not until last week. it was a horrible experience.

Personal Growth - i have not done many dives 48 (or 46 if you don't include the 2 aborted ones 5 and 12 minutes in. (do i record those as dives?) and i have always looked at ways of improving and progressing with regards to buoyancy and air consumption and general dive practice. now i did 8 dives in Turkey 2 months ago where i felt comfortable but not any different to my last dives 10 months before. but this trip it just seemed to click. my air consumption had improved and id have 20 or 30 bar more than my buddy who usually had 10 more than me. my buoyancy and frog finning were on point and i kicked up no sand at all whilst hovering and swimming mere inches from the bottom. i felt more complete and in control (still cant do a buddah without falling backwards though) and people were coming to me for advice and commenting on how effortless i seemed in the water. i always assumed it was a gradual improvement (maybe it was and i just didn't notice) but it just seemed to click in those first couple of dives. i also became more aware of my computer and ascent rates and no deco times rather than just relying on the guide.

Observations - as mentioned before we had another advanced open water diver who i have matched dive for dive since we started 4 years ago up until last month when i got in 8 dives on another holiday) now in the above section i spoke about how he left his buddy to go to the surface on our aborted dive. now i am not saying he was wrong or right to do that as he may well have been ok to do that without a safety stop. but to leave your buddy?? i dont think that is right. also he has a tendency to follow his camera and ignore his buoyancy (floats upwards if stopping and focusing on a subject) his depth (goes deeper than he should) his watch (went past a no deco time whilst chasing an amberjack with his camera, afterwards asked me what hte beeping was on his watch) and ignores orders. one dive our instructor dropped a spool and told us to stay where we were. i stayed at 28m while my buddy ignored instruction and descended to 37m and upon feeling mild effects of narcosis decided taking a video would be better to calm his "feelings of impending doom" rather than ascend slightly as we were taught. I am sure that i am not a perfect diver, far from it, but i feel or at least i like to think that i have a bit more awareness about me. the new OW diver we were with is his room mate but he asked to buddy with me as he felt safer with me due to me sticking fairly close and intermittently asking him if he was ok and keeping an eye on him. whereas the other diver just did his own thing and would leave big gaps with his buddy through poor awareness.
so my observation on this is that an Advanced certification is not necessarily an indication that they are of a higher caliber of diver. in contrast the new OW diver apart from a few buoyancy and air consumption issues seemed a better diver and the other diver in our group was also extremely competent. this is something i have seen posted elsewhere but its now something i have seen 1st hand and can relate to.
i was really conscious of the fact that our new OW diver was nervous and wanted re assurance (we have all been there) and so i went out of my way to look after him and offer advice or ask any questions or offer reassurance if he felt bad about something. now id do that with any buddy but i was more conscious about him being new and yet his buddy just didn't seem to care.

Search for enlightenment - so after negative comments and feelings of improvement and exasperation at the actions of others i seek further enlightenment to become not just a better diver but a better buddy.

if you have stuck with my essay to this point then i am impressed, and i ask your advice on the following:
1. is a rescue diver course a good investment, will it make me a safer and better buddy?
2. what do you think makes a good buddy or what do you feel you provide as a buddy?
3. am i being harsh on my advanced friend? if not how do i broach the subject of his inattentive nature? i have mentioned it before but he says he is a good diver and i should stop judging him but i just worry he will end up in trouble or i will need him and he wont be there.

 

[KevinNM]

A good rescue course is a worthwhile investment of your time and money.

Being within arms reach or no more than a kick or 2 away and where each of you can easily see see each other without twisting or similar gyrations. And ensuring at frequent intervals that they are there. I used to like to hang out a bit behind and above which sucks for them as it makes it hard for your buddy to see you.

Having a buddy you can't count on isn't any fun.

 

[Neilwood]

A good rescue course is a worthwhile investment of your time and money.

Being within arms reach or no more than a kick or 2 away and where each of you can easily see see each other without twisting or similar gyrations. And ensuring at frequent intervals that they are there. I used to like to hang out a bit behind and above which sucks for them as it makes it hard for your buddy to see you.

Having a buddy you can't count on isn't any fun.

One of my regular dive buddies has that habit (he would stay a few metres back and above) - makes it awkward when you are diving with a group. You can either stay within the group or stay with your buddy with that set up - not both. The issue was I knew where he would be but what happened if he got into difficulties - hopefully he would have banged his tank or something similar.

 

[Antmany2k]

above and behind is annoying but if they can grab a fin or signal its not too bad. whats bad is when he stays behind then wheels off in another direction and heads off 3 or 4 metres in the other direction. if i am not always looking for him i can be separated by a big distance. when i do notice i close the gap but it does make it less enjoyable when i have to spend more time watching him than the marine life. i didn't realize just how bad it was until i dived without him on another holiday and just felt so much more relaxed and enjoyed it so much more.

 

[halocline]

This might be the best title of a thread I have seen in a really long time. I'm really glad you didn't follow it up with asking what kind of regulator to buy!

I had a little trouble reading your post. Sometimes a little punctuation makes all the difference....!?....::;;

So, I'll give you some general advice based on what I think you might have written....enjoy life and diving, if you are sincere about your desire to become a better diver for increased safety and enjoyment, then take whatever courses you feel will help you.

 

[Antmany2k]

This might be the best title of a thread I have seen in a really long time. I'm really glad you didn't follow it up with asking what kind of regulator to buy!

I had a little trouble reading your post. Sometimes a little punctuation makes all the difference....!?....::;;

So, I'll give you some general advice based on what I think you might have written....enjoy life and diving, if you are sincere about your desire to become a better diver for increased safety and enjoyment, then take whatever courses you feel will help you.

haha i am glad you liked the title. unfortunately grammar and punctuation is not my strong point so i do apologise. thanks for the advice

 

[FinnMom]

I think of using a 15L instead of 12L as having some of the weight shifted from my waist to my back, like where a backpack would be (i.e. more comfortable). If they want to give me bigger tank for the same price, I wouldn't waste my time arguing. A smaller tank for the same price might annoy me but 3L bigger is no worries. Heck I wear a 15L in a pool (with wetsuit), that way I need no weight belt = less to remeber, less to carry, less to wash.

You sound like a better buddy than your advanced friend, but it sounds like he has already received your advice and not asked for more. Vote with your feet and find a buddy who better matches your buddy style; photographers can be very poor, very boring buddies. They may also ask you to pose and hold lights, which may get old for you much sooner than for them. Switch to someone more more your style.

Staying where you can see your buddy and he can also see you is a huge challenge for many new buddies. Esp. in poor vis training sites it can be hard for them to realize that 1,5-2m away is much easier to see than someone glued to your side an slightly above or behind. Most newbies can't stop however, so a full stop and hover often brings the remora-diver into view. In lousy teaching them to communicate with light beams is big help, a big comfort to them too (if the light is important to their happiness they need to also carry a backup).

The Rescue Diver course from all agencies generally gets very, very good reviews.

 

[CuzzA]

1. did i need to do a safety stop under the circumstances or should we have all gone to the surface straight away? we weren't deep but id say deep enough.
2. i was pleased with how i kept calm under the circumstances as i have never been in that situation but i can't help but think could i have done more? did i do something wrong? at that depth danger was minimal but if he had shot to the surface from 18m or deeper it could be a different story. do i grab him and make sure he stays but risk him actually choking or worse lashing out and causing me injury or danger to get up?
3. it made me wonder if my next course should potentially be a rescue diver course so i could be a better buddy in these situations
4. how would you have reacted in this situation?

Regardless of an emergency or not, I wouldn't have done a safety stop for a 10 meter dive. It's nearly impossible to get bent at that depth.

In that situation I don't think there's much you can do. If the guy couldn't breath the best place for him to be is on the surface. I wouldn't touch him as a first response as that could lead to more panic. I think the best course of action is simply to let him know you're there to provide assistance. Try to communicate with him. Ask if he wants to thumb the dive and if he responds, then I would come in and grab his inflator with one hand and his arm with the other and do a controlled ascent omitting a safety stop.

Still though, keep in mind, if for whatever reason you can't breath and the problem can't be fixed at depth, safety stops and controlled ascents go out the window. You get to the surface as fast as possible.

1. is a rescue diver course a good investment, will it make me a safer and better buddy?
2. what do you think makes a good buddy or what do you feel you provide as a buddy?
3. am i being harsh on my advanced friend? if not how do i broach the subject of his inattentive nature? i have mentioned it before but he says he is a good diver and i should stop judging him but i just worry he will end up in trouble or i will need him and he wont be there.

I can't tell you if the rescue diver course would be a good investment as I've never done it. I hear that it's a good course to take.

I think the best buddy is yourself. Not putting someone else in a situation to have to tend to you. I would focus on self reliance. Perhaps instead of rescue diver, take the solo course. Nevertheless, the buddy system works when both divers are on the same page. You are a team. You easily communicate with each other and share the same diving goals and plan. Each other's actions should be predictable. If this isn't your "advanced" buddy friend, find a new buddy.

 

[Musicgirl]

I agree, great title for the post. lol. I also love these sorts of posts because it makes me think about my own actions very much.

conclusion and questions:
1. did i need to do a safety stop under the circumstances or should we have all gone to the surface straight away? we weren't deep but id say deep enough.
2. i was pleased with how i kept calm under the circumstances as i have never been in that situation but i can't help but think could i have done more? did i do something wrong? at that depth danger was minimal but if he had shot to the surface from 18m or deeper it could be a different story. do i grab him and make sure he stays but risk him actually choking or worse lashing out and causing me injury or danger to get up?
3. it made me wonder if my next course should potentially be a rescue diver course so i could be a better buddy in these situations
4. how would you have reacted in this situation?

1. I do think this is not as black and white as may imply here, but I wouldn't have made the safety stop. It is just that a "safety" stop, not a deco stop. As there is a potential emergency, and not knowing if the result of the panicked diver, no safety stop is necessary. If that diver panicked and went up too quickly, ended up with either dcs or, more likely, lung over-expansion, it would not be great if the boat has to wait for divers coming from a safety stop.
2. It is questions like these that tell me you are the perfect person to be taking a rescue course. You want to react and stay safe. It really difficult to say without actually being there. Trying to make the diver feel less anxiety (like putting a hand on the shoulder or guiding his hand to a rope line) so they can self control their breathing is the most ideal, however not always possible depending on his actions. But, no, you don't want to put yourself at risk.
3. YES!!! If you are already considering it, do it. So worth it!
4. see #3.

if you have stuck with my essay to this point then i am impressed, and i ask your advice on the following:
1. is a rescue diver course a good investment, will it make me a safer and better buddy?
2. what do you think makes a good buddy or what do you feel you provide as a buddy?
3. am i being harsh on my advanced friend? if not how do i broach the subject of his inattentive nature? i have mentioned it before but he says he is a good diver and i should stop judging him but i just worry he will end up in trouble or i will need him and he wont be there.

To sum up these... I like to think I'm a good buddy. I also have no concern if my buddy is as experienced as I am or not. I think good communication is the most important. Also diving within your own limits and not being afraid to say so. I worry more if my buddy is coming up with not enough air or is feeling tired, or whatever. So I wouldn't want to worry someone else with the same issues. Even communicating any issues of nervousness so that my buddy is prepared. If a diver isn't comfortable with water in the mask, they should be sure their buddy knows. Also, I worry about that diver...I wouldn't want to dive with him again until he masters is mask issues (however I'd be happy to take him to the pool and help).
As for the friend...well...it wasn't like he abandoned his buddy totally, he left him with you and a group. I'm sure it's a sort of situation where everyone on that dive is replaying over at least a bit in their heads. I think if anyone should say something it's his buddy. I wouldn't worry about it. Another reason for you to take the rescue course, you become less reliant on others and can manage without relying on someone so much.

Finally, I do like to hold divers to a higher standard when is come to prejudging, because I find most divers are open minded and social people. However, it happens more than I like to think. Sometimes depending on the part of the world I'm in or what part of the world the dive staff are from. The tank thing you experienced is not common, but you may experience it again from time to time. For me, I am never judged for being female, until I pull out my eye popping bright purple BCD (which is not new and been through a couple hundred dives, but still bright because I am meticulous with maintaining it). Then, somehow, I must be a fairly inexperienced diver who dropped money for "cute" equipment for something I do 2 times a year. So,we all get it from time to time. Sometimes they learn and sometimes it's cultural and there's not much to do but just be gracious and the best diver you can be. You could say something to the manager or owner of the dive operation so they can put something into their staff training.

Cheers, and great discussion points...

 

[2airishuman]

1. did i need to do a safety stop under the circumstances or should we have all gone to the surface straight away? we weren't deep but id say deep enough.

Typically I don't do a safety stop unless the dive has been to a depth greater than 30' (10m). At "around 10m" for 8 minutes I would prefer to do a safety stop and my computer would pitch a beepy fit if I didn't. How necessary is it? Probably not very necessary. There are many people who would skip it.

2. i was pleased with how i kept calm under the circumstances as i have never been in that situation but i can't help but think could i have done more? did i do something wrong? at that depth danger was minimal but if he had shot to the surface from 18m or deeper it could be a different story. do i grab him and make sure he stays but risk him actually choking or worse lashing out and causing me injury or danger to get up?

I would be very reluctant to try physically control another diver under any circumstances, particularly if it is someone I do not know well.

4. how would you have reacted in this situation?

Probably the same way.

i should have 15l. i disagree and he argues with me, then the guide advises him i need 12.

I prefer a 15l (120cf) and ask for them on every dive. Maybe I'm fat, I dunno, that's me in the avatar photo, decide for yourself. There's nothing wrong with more air. The only reason I can think of to turn down a larger cylinder is if it is uncomfortable for you.

captain doesn't realize i speak spanish and understand him when he tells the guide i am fat so need 15l not the skinny guy.

I believe it is important in these situations to say something in Spanish to the captain when getting off the boat. Something short and pleasant but with sufficient complexity for him to realize that you have a degree of fluency. It will make him more careful with future tourists.

an Advanced certification is not necessarily an indication that they are of a higher caliber of diver

Yup

is a rescue diver course a good investment, will it make me a safer and better buddy?

Maybe. People learn in different ways. Class quality varies widely. Lots of people get a lot out of "rescue." I will probably take it at some point.

2. what do you think makes a good buddy or what do you feel you provide as a buddy?

Communication, responsibility, and a willingness to compromise.

am i being harsh on my advanced friend? if not how do i broach the subject of his inattentive nature? i have mentioned it before but he says he is a good diver and i should stop judging him but i just worry he will end up in trouble or i will need him and he wont be there.

I quit trying to fix other people years ago. Chances are he'll be all right. If you're not comfortable in the water with him, dive with someone else or by yourself.