Dilemmas with upgrading my camera system

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DanielM

Registered
Messages
20
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1
Location
Maui
# of dives
100 - 199
Hey folks :)

I'm hoping for your opinion on a camera setup, both on the product front, but also on the way I am approaching the decision making.

Today I take mostly photos but also some videos with a GoPro 3+ (without an LCD display screen) with a red filter plus a Sidekick Duo S/F light, all of it on a floatie stick. I love that it is compact, the Sidekick Duo doubles as my regular dive light when searching for stuff in the reef under ledges etc, the whole thing is easy to maneuver with one hand leaving my other hand totally free, easy to quickly tether to my pocket-less BC, and not fragile at all to worry about it. What I'd like to improve is being able to see a preview of the photos, and to take better macro photos (incl. zoom). I was between the latest GoPro plus a macro lens, or the TG-6 and decided that, since photos is my primary activity, to go for the TG-6. I'll also need the underwater housing PT-059 plus a spare battery and charger. So far, so good, I think.

The first dilemma is what to do for the non-macro scenarios. I see there is a 120 degree lens for the TG-6, but that would mean switching lens when moving from macro to wide photo (and also having to store the lens somewhere). That seems a hassle too far for me. I don't typically decide ahead of the dive what I'll be doing, it all comes naturally based on what is around and what gets my attention. The compromise seems to be the M52 81 Wide Air lens, which claims not to have to come off for macro (as long as you zoom the camera all the way in). So I decided to get that and what made me comfortable with that decision is the following. Since I already have the old GoPro, it seems a miss not to get a shoe adapter and mount the GoPro on the TG-6. This gives me wide angle video and also I could dedicate the GoPro to video in general, and the TG-6 to photos, and hence not have to mess with switching settings. Makes sense so far?

The second dilemma is the lights. I understand that strobes have higher light intensity, and that they freeze the moment better, etc. But I am kinda attached to the idea of my camera rig doubling as my dive light for the dive, plus it is nice to have the light for the videos. Having both a strobe and a separate dive light seems to go too far for me. My understanding is that light versus strobe is not going to make a big difference for macro photography, so if I go with only a light the only big tradeoff is wide angle photos won't be as a great, and I think I can live with that. Does that decision/thought process make sense? With that context, what light would you recommend? I'm leaning toward the brand new Backscatter MW-4300 (plus a spare set of batteries). The secondary question on lights (regardless of light or strobe) is whether to get 1 or 2, and for now I am going with just one and later I could add a second if needed.

The last decision, is what to mount that dive light to. Since the shoe is taken by the GoPro I can't mount it there, plus having the flexibility to move it around to avoid backscatter e.g. hover it over the subject for macro would probably make that a bad place to mount it - besides that kind of system would not "grow" with me if I decided to get a second light/strobe later. So I guess I have to bite the bullet and go with a tray with one arm, which seems to be a whole bunch of items to buy, i.e. the tray, the ball mount base, a short arm, a long arm, three clamps, a lanyard, and floats. Phew. Does all that make sense for just mounting a light to a camera?

Before I hit the "buy" button I get this uneasy feeling that this decision may change the way I dive, and not necessarily for the better. Sure I'll end up with better photos. But with all of the above in my hands, the dive entry and exit has to be more careful/thoughtful not to damage anything, my hand will now always carry this bulky item and not sure I'd be comfortable tethering it to myself… I just wonder if I am ready for turning my care-free dives that have some photography, to instead them becoming dominated by photography. Have others being through this journey? How was it for you?


Cheers

Daniel
 
Hi Daniel,

Your approach to advantages/disadvantages of the different configurations is good...

It is personally very different what is the optimum. I have made my personal decision and like to go underwater with an entire camera system (Olympus EM1II with all tyes of lenses and ports) and am very happy with it. I recommend you stay with the equipment you have until you are 100% shure for yourself that you really want better technical abilities at the cost of more efforts. Nobody can make this decision for you....

Wolfgang
 
You need to answer the question of "Do I want to dive to take photos, or do I want to take photos while I dive?" before your buy anything. What you are proposing will likely lead to none of what you want, ie big and bulky, but still not taking great images. Also decide on what your primary focus will be Macro or wide angle? You can get something that does both, but it'll just be okay at both of them. Jack of all trades, master of none.

There is no camera that is small enough to ignore when you don't want it, but can also do photos and video and wide angle and macro and all of that with lights.

I think we have all gotten used to phones being amazingly capable cameras on land, so it is a natural extension to want the same thing underwater. It just doesn't really exist, and it is mostly limited by physics, not technology.

I suppose you could see if there is a really high end housing for a phone (I think Gates was going to make one, not sure if they ever did), but that would make it about 2x the size, then the lights are going to be in addition to that. Video lights would work best for what you want, but you still need to get the light away from the camera. You'll still be stuck with a fixed aperture though. May as well go mirrorless at that point.

If you are in Maui, go talk to the guides at Extended Horizons in Lahaina, especially Victoria. They take photos and guide divers, so their systems are about as optimized for what you are looking for.

-Chris
 
Backscatter would be smart to bundle the most effective tray/arm/junction with their own combination light/strobe as I think many TG-6 buyers would pick it up. The choices on their site are so confusing that I basically gave up. Knowing that all the parts would work together and getting a bundle price would be an easy choice for me.
 
Hi Daniel,

Your approach to advantages/disadvantages of the different configurations is good...

It is personally very different what is the optimum. I have made my personal decision and like to go underwater with an entire camera system (Olympus EM1II with all tyes of lenses and ports) and am very happy with it. I recommend you stay with the equipment you have until you are 100% shure for yourself that you really want better technical abilities at the cost of more efforts. Nobody can make this decision for you....

Wolfgang

Thanks Wolfgang, appreciate you going through my approach! Totally agree that we each have our own optimum and have to make our own decision, and like you suggest I’m procrastinating now until I am sure that the benefit of better photos is worth it to me to have carry “all that stuff”. Just looking for additional perspectives to learn from other peoples’ journeys, and if anybody has figured out how to get lighting into the picture without the bulky stuff…
 
Backscatter would be smart to bundle the most effective tray/arm/junction with their own combination light/strobe as I think many TG-6 buyers would pick it up. The choices on their site are so confusing that I basically gave up. Knowing that all the parts would work together and getting a bundle price would be an easy choice for me.

Agreed. In a way, working with the awesome folks at Backscatter, I have created the bundle (if you click on all those links and add them to your cart, there’s the bundle!) and there are discounts they are running until end of month. If you don’t have a GoPro, you could even get rid of the tray and instead mount the light on the shoe… though then you’d have to use the TG-6 for videos too and you get into the lack of wide angle…
 
You need to answer the question of "Do I want to dive to take photos, or do I want to take photos while I dive?" before your buy anything. What you are proposing will likely lead to none of what you want, ie big and bulky, but still not taking great images. Also decide on what your primary focus will be Macro or wide angle? You can get something that does both, but it'll just be okay at both of them. Jack of all trades, master of none.

There is no camera that is small enough to ignore when you don't want it, but can also do photos and video and wide angle and macro and all of that with lights.

I think we have all gotten used to phones being amazingly capable cameras on land, so it is a natural extension to want the same thing underwater. It just doesn't really exist, and it is mostly limited by physics, not technology.

I suppose you could see if there is a really high end housing for a phone (I think Gates was going to make one, not sure if they ever did), but that would make it about 2x the size, then the lights are going to be in addition to that. Video lights would work best for what you want, but you still need to get the light away from the camera. You'll still be stuck with a fixed aperture though. May as well go mirrorless at that point.

If you are in Maui, go talk to the guides at Extended Horizons in Lahaina, especially Victoria. They take photos and guide divers, so their systems are about as optimized for what you are looking for.

-Chris

That’s a great question Chris! For me the answer is "take photos while diving" (not the other way round). Since I’m keeping the GoPro for videos, I think I’m only looking for a camera for photos, and prioritizing macro easily leads to the TG-6. And agreed that the lighting is what creates the “problem”. I don’t mind carrying the camera (and attaching it to my BC to put it out of the way), but as soon as you add a video light (let alone strobes) you are now looking at a “system”… I guess I just wish there was a system that didn’t involve trays + arms ++
 
Just get a video light as your dive light, or one that has an adapter like this:
Video Diffuser for BX2/CX1 Lights | Dive Rite

Hand hold your camera in one hand, light in the other. Takes some practice, but it very doable and makes light positions infinitely more adjustable. We called it "freehanding the strobe".
 
OK I was using a go Pro Hero 4 for several years. I got a TG6 with PT059 housing and package of gear quite cheap August 2019.
I decided as I like to take video to get two Big Blue VL 4200P video lights. The camera tray is my onw DIY.

I bought a mount for the Go Pro as sometimes I use that for video when I am taking photos. You can set the TG6 for landscape like in the Go Pro so do not spend on getting a wide screen lens atm. You will need to learn about what settings to use but you will get some fantastic video and photos from the TG6. The video lights last for hours on low power and are great for low vis and night dives.

Sometimes I will shoot video from the Go Pro when I am taking photos with the TG6. The TG6 does take awesome 4K video as well. Lights are important so you won't need a red filter. I'm just taking photos and video as memories of my vacations and I rarely do any editing cause I am lazy and I am not trying to join any photo competitions.




TG6 HERO4 SETUP.jpg
 

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