DELIBERATELY overweighting students doing OW training

[Phil_C]

I have seen this quite a few times - and I have challenged the instructor, the commonest response has been along the lines of "it makes it easier for them to practise skills if they can be negative on the bottom".

I completely disagree, students should learn as early as possible to manage their buoyancy, and in the depths they were practicing to my mind the volume changes due to having more air in the BC than necessary would make that very much harder than learning to dive properly weighted from the outset.

In contrast I have to admit that I have carried a little extra weight myself when acting as an assistant or DM'ing new divers so that I have a bit more weight and leeway for me if to control an ascent if I need to. But I only do this when teaching/assisting, not when we go out on 'proper' dives.

I suppose there might be a issue there, do as I say not do as I do ? - not good for new divers but OK for me ? might be time to think about this. :shocked2:

P

 

[GCullen94]

many instructors over weight their students initially to prevent uncontrolled ascents. students tend to be heavey handed on the inflator based on my experience with assisting on classes.



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the problem with that is then the students have a larger bubble to manage, making uncontrolled ascents more likely to happen. Also... if instructor is teaching them to use the inflator to start an ascent well thats bad instruction.

 

[ScubaTigress]

many instructors over weight their students initially to prevent uncontrolled ascents. students tend to be heavey handed on the inflator based on my experience with assisting on classes.


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Indeed, contrary to everyone else's statements in this thread, there are very VERY few (if any) instructors on Cayman who don't deliberately overweight students at the beginning of training

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Oh man, this is one of my worst pet peeves.
I've seen this so much with instructors that I used to help out.
Their excuse is that they don't want to bother with students dangling on the surface trying to figure out how to decend feet first, so they overweight them. I've been told "I want to make sure everybody gets down!"
As soon as they dump their air they drop like a rock and then thay can get on with skills. It's a time frame thing because they need to get the skills done and move on. There's no time in OW for teaching proper weighting. As far as their concerned there is another class for that pesky "buoyancy control" thing.

Why don't they just spend an extra 30 minutes with them and explain weighting and how to dive with only what you need?
They're lazy that's why. Or maybe they just don't know and think it's normal since they learned that way too? who knows.

 

[BRT]

Tank buoyancy varies between tanks. Suit buoyancy varies depending on how many dives it has been on recently. Body buoyancy varies depending on what you had for breakfast. We have a method of compensating for being too heavy, our BCD. We have no method of compensating for being too light. Being too light can kill us with an unplanned ascent. Why wouldn't you dive slightly overweighted? I hate swimming down on my safety stop and don't believe there are very many students who could successfully do that and hold a level for 3 minutes.

 

[fdog]

Indeed, contrary to everyone else's statements in this thread, there are very VERY few (if any) instructors on Cayman who don't deliberately overweight students at the beginning of training

I mean this sincerely, thank you for posting this.

Sadly, though, it isn't a surprise.


All the best, James

 

[RJP]

Tank buoyancy varies between tanks. Suit buoyancy varies depending on how many dives it has been on recently. Body buoyancy varies depending on what you had for breakfast. We have a method of compensating for being too heavy, our BCD. We have no method of compensating for being too light. Being too light can kill us with an unplanned ascent. Why wouldn't you dive slightly overweighted? I hate swimming down on my safety stop and don't believe there are very many students who could successfully do that and hold a level for 3 minutes.

Sounds like you're talking about fixing being underweighted. That's not the same as being purposely overweighted.

 

[boulderjohn]

I have seen this quite a few times - and I have challenged the instructor, the commonest response has been along the lines of "it makes it easier for them to practise skills if they can be negative on the bottom".

Unfortunately this is indeed true, and it is the reason that so many students are currently intentionally overweighted during their training.

When I posed for pictures for the article on teaching OW classes while neutrally buoyant, I had to demonstrate basic skills both in 1) the way I was advocating and had been teaching for several years (neutrally buoyant in horizontal trim) and 2) on the knees, the way most instructors teach skills. I was frankly shocked to realize I had to use almost twice as much weight to do the skills comfortably on the knees. If I were properly weighted while on the knees, I kept toppling over.

For that reason, I do believe that many and perhaps most instructors overweight their students. It is not for some intentional teaching benefit--it is to keep them firmly planted on the bottom so that they can do the skills.

Hopefully the announced changes for PADI will have that effect. The new teaching materials will never show a diver on the knees, and the emphasis on neutral buoyancy and horizontal trim will hopefully change this practice. It will take some time, but if we keep preaching the neutral buoyancy mantra, in time it will come.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Hopefully the announced changes for PADI will have that effect. The new teaching materials will never show a diver on the knees, and the emphasis on neutral buoyancy and horizontal trim will hopefully change this practice. It will take some time, but if we keep preaching the neutral buoyancy mantra, in time it will come.

What? changes at PADI?.... I'm in shock!!

 

[gopbroek]

Last week I was diving in Cozumel and an Independent instructor came along on the boat with a couple of students from France, who were finishing their open water cert’s. One of the gentlemen, who appeared to be in good shape with low body fat, insisted he needed 24 LBs of weight even though he had a 3-5 mil suit. The instructor, who I respect, attempted to reason with him that it was excessive, no joy. He got down quick and skipped any buoyancy training. On the second dive as best as I could tell she had reasoned with him to reduce the load.
To me it appeared that his initial instructor was lazy and had over weighted him , on his first dives , to ‘get him down’. To repeat what others have said it I believe it is a lazy practice to over-weight the new divers and detrimental to actual learning. There are a lot of key life support skills to teach in the initial certification, and they are important. I can understand an instructor’s rationalization that the quicker they are down the more under water class room time becomes available. The down side to this is not being able to effectively establishing actual buoyancy and practicing the #1 skill to enjoyable diving.